First High Gravity Beer, any advice?

[W0rthog]

Hi all,

I planning for my first high gravity beer and would like advice. The beer is a Advantageous Weizenbock (Northern Brewer kit) with an OG of 1.084. I'm planing to use a yeast starter. Planning to use a 6 1/2 gallon bucket for primary and a 6 1/2 carboy for secondary.
Any lessons learned from high gravity beers that you can share with me?
Thanks in advance.


Thanks in advance.

Thanks

 

[WoodlandBrew]

I've been working on an Aventinius clone for a while. It's one of my favorite beers. I mash the grains to make a 1.060 wort, pitch the yeast, then 2 days later add DME to bring the equivalent OG to about 1.080. Recipe is at home, I'm at work. If you would like I can dig up the exact numbers.

Ferment at 62 degrees. Keeping the OG low when pitching keeps the yeast from being as stressed. The low temperature keeps them from going to nuts.

Looking at the mash schedule I would do it a couple of degrees cooler. I know you want that big malty flavor, but 16lbs of grain and no sugar will do that just fine. One of my batches need up like syrup trying to get the sweetness higher.

 

[W0rthog]

I would love the numbers. Thanks for the advice about keeping the temps low, I didn't know that.

 

[Bricks41]

When dealing with high gravity, yeast pitching rates are very important. Make sure you pitch enough to get them off on the right foot. Also, make sure you control the fermentation temp as best you can - the lower in the optimal range, the better.

I must disagree with keeping OG low when you pitch, only to add DME later. If you are not boiling it you are risking infection. If you are adding it after boiling it, then your hop utilization is thrown all off, not to mention differing volumes.

Starting yeast off in a very sugar rich environment doesn’t cause yeast stress. Yeast stress in the beginning is most often caused by temp shock (pitching 72F yeast in to 90F wort) or pitching too hot (pitching at 90F). Yeast stress is more of a factor as the alcohol content continues to rise, the longer it takes for the yeast to eat through the sugars, the longer they are exposed to the high alcohol environment, therefore, get tired, worn out and don’t finish the job to the best of their abilities. This is why pitching the appropriate amount of yeast is important.

Lastly, toss in some yeast nutrient at the end of the boil to help them in the initial growth phase as well.

 

[2bluewagons]

Are you doing AG or extract? If AG, like the above poster said, you can knock a few degrees off of your mash temp to ensure a reasonable FG.

If extract, you might even consider replacing some of the extract with table sugar so that the beer doesn't end up too cloying. The starter will sure help, and I'm sure NB has their kits dialed in, but my experiences with extract-only batches in this gravity range never netted me a beer below 1.020.

Also, since you are set on using a secondary (despite many including myself who think it is unnecessary, but that's a whole nother ball o wax), just make sure that your gravity is at or just a few points shy of your expected FG before you rack. Higher gravity beers take longer to ferment, and you don't want to cut it short by racking too early.

Good luck with the beer, sounds tasty.

Edit - Agree with the above concerning a post-pitch addition of DME. It's just not necessary, a properly-sized yeast starter (use mrmalty.com) can handle a 1.080 beer no problem. It is mainly simple sugars that people add later so that the yeast do not lose their ability to metabolize maltose early on in the fermentation process by focusing on those sugars. That said, I did recommend adding some simple sugar above, and I am not contradicting myself. If you decide to do so, a pound or two of sucrose in the kettle is fine, no ill effects in my experience. Or it can be added later, your choice. But it does need to be boiled with a little water and added as a syrup.

 

[inhousebrew]

I would love the numbers. Thanks for the advice about keeping the temps low, I didn't know that.

Oh yeah! Pitch your yeast even lower and let it work it's way up. Big beers kick off a lot of heat from fermentation so start low because if you start at room temp they'll be 5-10* higher at high krausen. You can link to my blog in my signature and scroll down for some tips on big beer brewing if you want. Just some stuff I think of when going big.

 

[W0rthog]

Thanks all. It is an extract kit, with 12 lbs of syrup. I was thinking of using 3 smack packs in a 2 ltr. starter to get the yeast count up to 570ish Billion.

I've never had to use a blowoff tube, but was pondering using one for this beer. Any guidance on the use of blowoff setups? With 6 1/2 gallon bucket, I wasn't sure.

 

[Bricks41]

For a 1.084, you would only need approximately 300 billion. I'd personally hate to do 2 smack packs, but you could get there easily with 2 in a 2L starter.

Blow off tubes are usually a very good idea in the first 4 days +/- of primary fermentation. Simple, tube stuck into the airlock hole, have the other end in a container of sanitizer and stand back

Cheers!

 

[helibrewer]

You might consider an anti-foam during fermentation...blow off can get quite impressive with big beers.

 

[WoodlandBrew]

What I was referring to as stress on the yeast with a high OG is from the osmotic pressure. The yeast cell will want to equalize it's concentration of dissolved partials with that of the solution it is in. This means that it will leach water out of the cells. Agreed that you can compensate by pitching more yeast, but they will be stressed.

Here is a reference to why high gravity is strain on yeast:
http://www.wyeastlab.com/hb_highgravitybrewing.cfm

 

[tgmartin000]

Use O2.

 

[Bricks41]

What I was referring to as stress on the yeast with a high OG is from the osmotic pressure. The yeast cell will want to equalize it's concentration of dissolved partials with that of the solution it is in. This means that it will leach water out of the cells. Agreed that you can compensate by pitching more yeast, but they will be stressed.

Here is a reference to why high gravity is strain on yeast:
http://www.wyeastlab.com/hb_highgravitybrewing.cfm

Agreed - sufficient O2 saturation helps this while in the lag phase. O2 along with nutrients strengthen the cell membranes to resist the tendency to explode and die before adjusting to the new environment. In high gravity wort O2 saturation is harder to obtain... leads me into thinking about my next upgrade... an O2 wand.

 

[inhousebrew]

leads me into thinking about my next upgrade... an O2 wand.

I've been thinking about getting an O2 setup myself. It would be an interesting experiment to do a five gallon batch of big beer, 1.100+, split it in half and shake aerate half of it and use a O2 setup on the other half. Pitch the same yeast, same temp, same time frame. See if you really get a difference.

 

[slatorian]

there's been research into using a small drop of olive oil instead of O2. Has to do with giving the yeast the material for cell structure already made as opposed to just the ingredients (O2). Sorry for oversimplifying. It's late, Can't remember. But here's a link, should help, cheers!
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/using-olive-oil-instead-oxygen-47872/

 

[slatorian]

for those of you who don't have O2 setups, It's a pretty easy and cost effective way if you use a small enough amount. I've done it before. my friends thought it was my best batch yet. hope this is helpful to some

 

[sweed]

Now that I think about it, most of my beers have been high gravity. Pitch enough yeast, why not make a big starter? Keep it cool, and ferment long enough. They aren't that bad as ppl make then out to be IMO.

 

[WoodlandBrew]

Earlier the OP asked about the gravity numbers for when I pitched and how much I added later.
Batch 1 (worked well)
Wort at pitch: 1.064
Added 13 oz of DME on day two of fermentation to bring the effective OG to 1.076 (dissolved in boiling water and cooled)

Batch 2 (not so well)
Wort at pitch: 1.073. about 150 billion cells pitched, but mash temp was high (158), aeration was insufficient resulting in a FG of 1.027. Very cloying. Don't do this.