First Hard Cider, advice????

[Pyg]

Making my first hard cider.
I have made apple wine many times, but never really liked it. Too high ABV too little Apple flavor.
I want to try lower ABV and carbonate.

I am going to start with 3 gallons of cider.
I intend to us Notty ale yeast
I intend add pectin enzyme (as per my LHBS)
I will add yeast energizer (per my LHBS - says it keeps yeast from producing rotten egg smell)

I am going to raise the SG up to about 1.050 and hope it should stop around 1.010 and prime from there.

Is there any issues with my plan for hard cider?

 

[gratus fermentatio]

Well, if you prime & bottle at 1.010, the ABV will be 5.4% & Notty will easily go to 9.0% ABV. I think you might want to either let the SG go lower before you prime & bottle, or pasteurize after conditioning to avoid gushers when opening those bottles.
Regards, GF.

 

[Maylar]

A couple of things -

Use yeast nutrient, not energizer. 1.050 is the perfect starting point, and most juice will be that right off the tree.

Don't expect to stop fermentation at 1.010. The yeast will stop when it's done. Nottingham will usually finish at 1.000.

 

[MarkKF]

A couple of things -

Use yeast nutrient, not energizer. 1.050 is the perfect starting point, and most juice will be that right off the tree.

Don't expect to stop fermentation at 1.010. The yeast will stop when it's done. Nottingham will usually finish at 1.000.

What he said. If you use S-04 the taste is similar and might stop at 1.004. You can add acid blend and grape tannin, too.

 

[Pyg]

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1447559501.771932.jpg
Might regret brewing 3 gallon in a 3 gallon carboy!
Added nutrient and pectin
Notty ale yeast
Starting SG 1.056
Made a yeast starter with 2 tbsp brown sugar and 1/4 cup water.

 

[Pyg]

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1447608959.628469.jpg
Didn't over flow like I thought it would

 

[Pyg]

Few more questions:

1- how long primary? Is this like beer (3 weeks primary than bottle) or wine (rack when hit dry fg)?

2- does clarifier make the suspended yeast drop? Or should I just cold crash?

3- has anyone ever used lactose to sweeten? I don't know if that adds a wrong flavor, but I know it is a non fermentable sugar

 

[dmtaylor]

Cider is very close to wine, and nothing like beer. Give it literally a couple of months to complete fermentation before bottling. Don't bottle before that point or those bottles will either gush or become very dangerous explosions.

Gelatin will knock the yeast out 99% in 24 hours.

I have not tried using lactose to sweeten but I do think it's a pretty good idea and should work.

Cote des Blancs is my favorite yeast. Notty is good but adds an odd sort of peachy flavor. US-05 is also good but adds a slight butterscotch flavor that fades over time.

Pectic enzyme is worthless. Nutrient probably is too. I use neither and my ciders turn out excellent. I have 4 batches going this year.

 

[bernardsmith]

Pyg, I am making a HUGE assumption here but the problem with too little flavor may come from the source of your juice. Apples used for making cider (or wine ) are not those intended for eating or for making apple juice. Cider apples have a far higher sugar content, far more tannins and are more acidic than table apples... and those gallon jugs of supermarket apple were never made for fermenting... You live in the apple center of the US ... there must be dozens of orchards near you that will press apples to make hard cider ...
I would also recommend 71B as your yeast rather than an ale yeast. 71B has an affinity for malic acid and metabolizes a significant amount of that acid and converts it to lactic (not an MLF bacterium) - After about 9 months aging the taste becomes incredible.

 

[Pyg]

Cider is very close to wine, and nothing like beer. Give it literally a couple of months to complete fermentation before bottling. Don't bottle before that point or those bottles will either gush or become very dangerous explosions.



Gelatin will knock the yeast out 99% in 24 hours.



I have not tried using lactose to sweeten but I do think it's a pretty good idea and should work.



Cote des Blancs is my favorite yeast. Notty is good but adds an odd sort of peachy flavor. US-05 is also good but adds a slight butterscotch flavor that fades over time.



Pectic enzyme is worthless. Nutrient probably is too. I use neither and my ciders turn out excellent. I have 4 batches going this year.

I am not looking to drop the yeast out as I am going to prime and bottle condition.
I figure I will cold crash to try and clear, but don't need it clear to drink

For the record I got a cider mixture from a local orchard which was pressed with the intention of fermenting

 

[Oldskooler]

I use a can of frozen apple juice to back sweeten and it works well for me.

 

[MarkKF]

Cider is very close to wine, and nothing like beer.


Cote des Blancs is my favorite yeast. Notty is good but adds an odd sort of peachy flavor. US-05 is also good but adds a slight butterscotch flavor that fades over time.



Pectic enzyme is worthless. Nutrient probably is too. I use neither and my ciders turn out excellent. I have 4 batches going this year.

I've used Notty but I prefer S-04. English Ale yeast leaves just enough sweetness.

I use Pectin enzyme, yeast nutrient, acid blend and grape tannins. My cider comes out very clear and tasty. Maybe I don't need these additives but I like it.

7-14 days in the primary then tack into glass carboy and wait 6-9 months before legging of bottling.

 

[Pyg]

I've used Notty but I prefer S-04. English Ale yeast leaves just enough sweetness.

I use Pectin enzyme, yeast nutrient, acid blend and grape tannins. My cider comes out very clear and tasty. Maybe I don't need these additives but I like it.

7-14 days in the primary then tack into glass carboy and wait 6-9 months before legging of bottling.

6-9 months?
My cider is still fermenting 1 week later, so I am guessing thing will ferment to dry.
I had wanted to prime and bottle condition And drink by end of december

 

[MarkKF]

6-9 months?
My cider is still fermenting 1 week later, so I am guessing thing will ferment to dry.
I had wanted to prime and bottle condition And drink by end of december

Then do it. Once the S. G. is stable. Usually 1.006-0.990 it's good to bottle. Time makes a good cider great. I got some in the basement over 11 months and still not bottled.

 

[Pyg]

Then do it. Once the S. G. is stable. Usually 1.006-0.990 it's good to bottle. Time makes a good cider great. I got some in the basement over 11 months and still not bottled.

I will set a few a side

 

[MarkKF]

In the future make more than you need. Overtime you'll get plenty bottled then you can let the next batch age longer in the carboy. I got two cases bottled and ready to drink, 10 gal. aging just under a year, and I'm starting my cider for next summer, fall & winter now.

 

[madscientist451]

6-9 months?
My cider is still fermenting 1 week later, so I am guessing thing will ferment to dry.
I had wanted to prime and bottle condition And drink by end of december

Your cider may suit your taste by your target time, but maybe not.
I go with a minimum of 4 months before I drink my cider. I'm drinking the 2014 cider now in the fall of 2015, but started drinking it last spring. I make about 40 gallons a year. Everyone has different tastes, and the available juice varies from place to place so you might be ok by the end of December. I wouldn't bottle it if you don't like the flavor. Just let it age a while and try it every 4-6 weeks. If the cider seems too acidic or vinegar like you can add malolactic culture and let that work for 3-4 weeks.
Monitor the smell coming off your airlock. If you notice a sulfur/rotten egg odor
you can feed the cider some more yeast nutrient. I had sulfur problems with Nottingham in my cider and don't use it. What is your fermentation temperature?

 

[dmtaylor]

I've used Notty but I prefer S-04. English Ale yeast leaves just enough sweetness.

I use Pectin enzyme, yeast nutrient, acid blend and grape tannins. My cider comes out very clear and tasty. Maybe I don't need these additives but I like it.

7-14 days in the primary then tack into glass carboy and wait 6-9 months before legging of bottling.

That's cool.

I usually go 3-4 months then bottle, but sometimes wait 6-9 if I'm feeling lazy (which often times, I am!). Also sometimes I drink the cider straight out of the fermenter and even occasionally skip bottling altogether for very small batches.

 

[mclynch]

Glad to see that people are letting their cider age. I am generally so impatient I drink it all before its prime! This is strengthening my resolve this year to let it sit... let it sit...

I've got 2 six gal carboys going with fresh-pressed juice from a local orchard in October. One is using Wyeast's Cider yeast, and Nottingham in the other. In the Notty one I also added 3 lbs of chopped cranberries to secondary, which has turned it a rich burgundy color.

I can't wait to try these... but I must... I must...
Fortunately I have a nice oatmeal stout and rosemary saison on tap right now...

Oh yeah, I also had an extra gallon, so I've got that sitting on medium toast oak cubes just to see what will happen. Anyone got any advice on aging with oak?

 

[Maylar]

In the future make more than you need. Overtime you'll get plenty bottled then you can let the next batch age longer in the carboy. I got two cases bottled and ready to drink, 10 gal. aging just under a year, and I'm starting my cider for next summer, fall & winter now.

I'm beginning to think this way too. I finally upped my batch size to a point where I have some extra to sit and age for a while. I'm thinking of starting another big batch so I can have a pipeline to rotate through over time, but all my secondary carboys are tied up. Need more bottles...

Are you sourcing your cider from Gotta's in Portland? I want to pick up another pail from them before the season ends.

 

[brownrice]

There's a school of thought that advocates skipping nutrient additives; it creates sulfur and rotten egg smell during fermentation, but those absolutely disappear over maybe 2 months. By allowing for a stressed/incomplete fermentation, you can retain a few more percentage points of sugar.

It won't be sweet as woodchuck, no worries, but it won't be as bone-dry and stripped of flavor as you'd get if you nurtured your yeast.

 

[MarkKF]

I do get my juice from Gotta. There may be a better source in CT but he has been very reasonable $, flexible and accommodating.

I use craisins instead of cranberries. They are full of flavor. Chopped not pressed.

 

[Pyg]

Hit SG 1.000
Sent to the garage to cold crash before bottling

 

[Pyg]

In January I bottled 2 batches. 1 with brown sugar
1 with prime sugar
This week I opened 1 of each.
No carbonation to speak of.
They both tasted like a dry apple cider with a kick,
But no carb.
I must have had all the yeast drop out

 

[dmtaylor]

No worries. Carbonation often takes ~6 months, if it happens at all. Either learn to love it flat, or to be very patient. Cider develops on its own time scale, not ours.

 

[Pyg]

No worries. Carbonation often takes ~6 months, if it happens at all. Either learn to love it flat, or to be very patient. Cider develops on its own time scale, not ours.

Who has time for patience?????

Thanks for info, I will tuck them away until winter

 

[Pyg]

A month later and there is a little carb.
This is a very dry cider. Has a slight tart taste
Not sure I am a cider person.
Of course after drinking 1/4 of the lads I spent the rest of the night with intestinal cramps, but that was probably unrelated!

 

[Pyg]

1 year later and this stuff is excellent.
Just ordered 5 gallons for next years drinking!

 

[TexasDroughtBrewery]

1 year later and this stuff is excellent.
Just ordered 5 gallons for next years drinking!

Yeah, I learned this the hard way myself. 6/mo or 1 year seems like an eternity to hold your beer. I don't have a spot to hold 5 gallons worth of bottles for that long..and still be able to put anything else I want in there (i.e. more beer lol)

But once i got the last 6 pack I did wait...and wait...it truly does taste better as every month goes by. It takes way to much time for me to continue making ciders until I can find a designated space for it.

Cheers and glad you like it!