First brew using BeerSmith

[JerryGallant]

I've been brewing for awhile. My normal process is 9 lbs of grain/35L of water, design a recipe. Mash with 13.5L, 60 minutes. Sparge with what's left, 15 mins. BeerSmith measures things far more carefully (and that's a plus!) so we thought that it was great. Recipe (Cascade APA):

1lb 2.1 oz C40
1lb 2.1 oz Vienna
1lb 2.1 oz Flaked Wheat
6lbs 12.4 oz 2-row (Canadian)
41.5 g Cascade at 60
28 g Cascade at 15
41.5 g at 5
30.28 L starting water

Mashed at 148F (mash-in temp)
Sparged at 168F (water temp pre-sparge)

Mash: 12.96L water, 117 mins.
Sparge: 0.2L water, 8.55L water, 8.55L water (We didn't understand this step so we sparged with 8.75L water, stirred, waited 5 mins. Then sparged with another 8.55l water, stirred, waited 5 mins). Here's where I'm confused. BeerSmith added the step of a pre-boil gravity reading with the expectation of 1.046. We ended up with 1.030, so our efficiency was terrible. So, we added a couple of pounds of DME to end up at 1.41 pre-boil and ended at 1.056 post-boil. Here's my question: I suspect our efficiency dropped so bad because of the sparging step, but I'm not sure. We used more grain, a few litres less water, but the only real difference was a double-step sparge and less sparging time. Thoughts?

 

[PrrCabin]

I find that BS has a bit of a steep learning curve.
But all in all a find piece of software that I cannot do without.

Cabin

 

[RM-MN]

I've been brewing for awhile. My normal process is 9 lbs of grain/35L of water, design a recipe. Mash with 13.5L, 60 minutes. Sparge with what's left, 15 mins. BeerSmith measures things far more carefully (and that's a plus!) so we thought that it was great. Recipe (Cascade APA):

1lb 2.1 oz C40
1lb 2.1 oz Vienna
1lb 2.1 oz Flaked Wheat
6lbs 12.4 oz 2-row (Canadian)
41.5 g Cascade at 60
28 g Cascade at 15
41.5 g at 5
30.28 L starting water

Mashed at 148F (mash-in temp)
Sparged at 168F (water temp pre-sparge)

Mash: 12.96L water, 117 mins.
Sparge: 0.2L water, 8.55L water, 8.55L water (We didn't understand this step so we sparged with 8.75L water, stirred, waited 5 mins. Then sparged with another 8.55l water, stirred, waited 5 mins). Here's where I'm confused. BeerSmith added the step of a pre-boil gravity reading with the expectation of 1.046. We ended up with 1.030, so our efficiency was terrible. So, we added a couple of pounds of DME to end up at 1.41 pre-boil and ended at 1.056 post-boil. Here's my question: I suspect our efficiency dropped so bad because of the sparging step, but I'm not sure. We used more grain, a few litres less water, but the only real difference was a double-step sparge and less sparging time. Thoughts?

To maximize the efficiency of the sparging one would do a double sparge. Drain the first runnings, close valve and add the first sparge (8.55 liters in your case) stir well and then drain. Close the valve and repeat the sparge with the second 8.55 liters. The difference with doing the double sparge insead of a single sparge with double the water isn't great. Instead of blaming your sparge mistake on the bad efficiency, blame the milling of the grain. That has the greatest influence on your efficiency.

Most LHBS will have the mill set a little coarser than optimum. Why? Because people who buy from them would rather have poor efficiency than deal with a stuck mash or sparge. You can accept the grain milled as it and just add a little more base malt to adjust for that or you can buy a mill of your own and buy grain in bulk to mill when you want. It doesn't take a lot of batches with using less grain plus the discount for buying bulk grain to pay for a mill and when you have your mill adjusted the way you want you can hit your expected OG every time.

 

[JerryGallant]

To maximize the efficiency of the sparging one would do a double sparge. Drain the first runnings, close valve and add the first sparge (8.55 liters in your case) stir well and then drain. Close the valve and repeat the sparge with the second 8.55 liters. The difference with doing the double sparge insead of a single sparge with double the water isn't great. Instead of blaming your sparge mistake on the bad efficiency, blame the milling of the grain. That has the greatest influence on your efficiency.

Most LHBS will have the mill set a little coarser than optimum. Why? Because people who buy from them would rather have poor efficiency than deal with a stuck mash or sparge. You can accept the grain milled as it and just add a little more base malt to adjust for that or you can buy a mill of your own and buy grain in bulk to mill when you want. It doesn't take a lot of batches with using less grain plus the discount for buying bulk grain to pay for a mill and when you have your mill adjusted the way you want you can hit your expected OG every time.

I get it, but our milling size hasn't changed, and we only took post-boil SG readings prior to this one and always ended up with gravity of 1.048-1.055, WITHOUT adding any DME, so I'm at a loss why we didn't get sugars to the tune of =>.018!

 

[Oginme]

To get the most out of BeerSmith, you need to customize the profiles to the way you want to brew. It is a program and does not understand the intricacies of brewing; it just follows directions based upon user input. You comment on achieving a post mash gravity of 1.030 when you were expecting a gravity of 1.046, but without knowing what your volume is versus what it was predicted to be is key to understanding just how much BeerSmith was off.

The first thing I would recommend is to make sure that the volumes throughout the system are consistent with how your process works. Key inputs are grain absorption, boil off rates, and trub losses at the end of the process. There is also any loss in volume of wort which cannot be drained from the mash tun. These all relate to not only water volume but also sugar losses throughout the system.

Next is to adjust the mash profile. I am pretty sure that you received the instructions to sparge with 0.2L water, 8.55L water, 8.55L water due to the way the the profile is set up. The box for 'drain mash tun before sparging' is most likely unchecked. When you do this, the program assumes that you will add water to fill the mash tun (0.2L) before draining it. Needless step in most cases. There is also a limit on the amount of water you will allow the software to add during the sparge. I think the default is set to 90% of mash tun volume. You can change this as needed.

Some people refer to the BeerSmith learning curve as being 'steep', but it really comes down to learning more about your process and system and then adjusting the program to reflect how YOU want to brew. For some, this is steep because it is more involved than they really want to get; for others it gives them a better understanding of what they are doing. Both observations are correct for each brewer and what they want from their system and software.

 

[JerryGallant]

Thanks everyone who replied. I think my post was a bit premature. I've been toying with BeerSmith and watching some tutorials and manually adding my equipment specs is key. Hopefully we'll achieve better efficiency next go round.

 

[day_trippr]

Getting the BS equipment profile accurate is very important, otherwise one will be fighting the tool every step...

Cheers!

 

[acidrain]

Agree with everything others have said.
It's a tool, and it only does what you tell it to.
There is one thing I don't rely on Beersmith for, and that's sparging.
I use it for dough-in, and then I batch sparge by simply draining, collecting and measuring the first runnings.
Calculate how much more wort is needed to hit the pre-boil volume, and then add that amount of hot liquor back to the MT for the sparge.
Stir, vorlauf, and drain.
I only single batch sparge. I don't see any advantage for multiple sparges, and I'm more about time efficiency than brew house efficiency.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

I am in the US and Metric confuses me...but I have a basic grasp on most metric units...but I guess your post has taught me that mixing the two really confuses me. Do you guys up north actually combine Pounds/Fahrenheit with Grams/Liters (or is that Litres?).

What is your overall volume into the fermenter? Around 5 gallons/19 L? 30 to 35L seems like a lot of water for 8-9 lb of grain. I plugged your grain bill into a 5 gallon batch and BeerSmith tells me about a 1.049 OG for 5 Gallons (~19L). For an 8 Gallon (~30L) batch it says 1.030.

 

[acidrain]

I am in the US and Metric confuses me...but I have a basic grasp on most metric units...but I guess your post has taught me that mixing the two really confuses me. Do you guys up north actually combine Pounds/Fahrenheit with Grams/Liters (or is that Litres?).

What is your overall volume into the fermenter? Around 5 gallons/19 L? 30 to 35L seems like a lot of water for 8-9 lb of grain. I plugged your grain bill into a 5 gallon batch and BeerSmith tells me about a 1.049 OG for 5 Gallons (~19L). For an 8 Gallon (~30L) batch it says 1.030.

No, I think most people do not use both metric and US measurements. They use one or the other, but in order to have an intelligent conversation, you do need to convert occasionally.
I see you have discovered online calculators (judging from your examples). That is a good way to have intelligent conversations. It's what I use too.

To answer your example question, in order to have 5 gallons into the fermentor (about 19L), you need to start with about 8 gallons of hot liquor (30.28L).
2 gallons for boil-off (7.57L) (that's my bold off rate... your mileage may vary)
1 gallon (3.78L) for absorption and other losses.

Remember, Beersmith does not tell you what to do... you tell it.
You need to enter all your parameters... kettles sizes and heat loss ratios, boil off rate, starting weights and temperatures, known efficiency levels, etc.
Constantly dialing in and adjusting those values for consistency.

Then, if once BS is all dialed in, it will pretty accurately predict and help you brew using known mathematics. It's nothing but a brewing-specific calculator.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

you need to start with about 8 gallons of hot liquor (30.28L)

I must have had a beer or two before looking at the post...yeah now it seem more clear that he is talking about ~30L of total water. Somehow I got the idea that he was talking about 30L+ in the mash...but the post clearly says "Mash: 12.96L water, 117 mins". My bad!

Yeah, my experience is that it takes a few runs on software to get dialed in. When trying out new software I plug in a known recipe with known final values and use that to set the initial numbers.