First Brew.....good idea?

[kempshark]

I have yet to brew, but I am planning on buying supplies to do so. I have a question though. I have no interest in extract brewing.....seems like making a cake from a box mix to me. I do, however, wish to save money on my start up costs.....and am thinking of BIAB for all grain brewing to start my first experience in brewing. Do you guys think this is a good idea? I'm thinking that I will buy a 10 gallon brew Kettle (with spigot, false bottom, and filter for the spigot) and buy a deluxe beginners kit with 6 gallon glass fermenter......also thinking of just starting out with a counter flow chiller too. Am I going nuts, or would this be a good way to start brewing?

 

[CTR08]

Go for it

 

[Holy_Hops]

Great idea. All grain is a blast and I wish I would've started earlier. Just make sure you do the research & understand the basics and good sanitation practices.

An all grain kit might be a great way to go with detailed instructions.

 

[BigFloyd]

I moved up to all-grain pretty quickly, but I'm going to strongly suggest doing a couple of extract batches (w/ steeping grains) first to familiarize yourself with the overall process, get your technique solid, and focus on some really needed basic things. Get these nailed down so that when you do jump into AG, you can focus on the new issues that come along with it. You can brew some awesome beers with extract if you use good basic brew practices and brew some awful beers doing AG if you do not. My best brew on tap right now is an ESB that was made from 7lbs LME w/ steeping grains. It turned out awesome.

1) Sanitization - Get some Star-San. Use it liberally. It is no-rinse. Keep some in a spray bottle that has never had any cleanser in it. Anything that touches the wort/beer or yeast after the boil is done needs to be sanitized.

2) Temperature. Yeast are temp-sensitive little buggers. When doing ales, you'll have to get the wort cooled from boiling to around 17-18*C (63-65*F) as quickly as possible. If you are doing all-grain, you pretty much need a wort chiller. Got one yet?

Do you have the ability to control fermentation temps? If not, it's much better to spend your beginning equipment budget on a system to do that instead of the extra stuff you need to do AG. It makes a huge difference. You can mash/brew perfectly, but if you ferment too high, the result will suffer badly and you will be frustrated. You're in Florida (with heat and humidity like we get here), so IMO you're best off going the "freezer/fridge with digital temp controller" route. You can put together a Craigslist freezer with an STC-1000 controller for about $100-120 and have the ability to ferment at an optimal temperature. Try to ferment at the lower end of the optimal temp range for the yeast you are using.

3) Yeast - start off with dry yeast. It's easier to use and to get enough cells for a 5-gallon batch. No need for making a "yeast starter". Take a good look at instructions for rehydrating dry yeast and do that. Lots more cells survive the pitch that way. The yeast slurry needs to be within 10*F of the wort when you pitch, so you have to learn to "attemperate" it.

There's a lot when doing those first couple of batches that will seem very foreign at first, but with which you will become comfortable via just a little bit of experience. After that happens, find someone near you that does AG and help them with a batch to learn it hands-on with a mentor. I did that and it really helped me for when I did it on my own.

 

[amandabab]

I have no interest in extract brewing.....seems like making a cake from a box mix to me.

getting the sugar is a very small part of the process.

 

[BigFloyd]

getting the sugar is a very small part of the process.

+1.

It's nothing at all like making a simple layer cake out of a box of cake mix. It's more like making a really fancy, decorated wedding cake, but you used the cake mix for the pieces of cake that are under all the other stuff instead of making the batter from scratch.

 

[SeraphX117]

I started doing all-grain before extract...it turned out great. If you are going to go this route, however, make sure to watch tons of videos and spend a few hours surfing HBT.

Extract is easier and allows you to get used to your system and iron out any kinks you may find before you go AG. I recommend extract first simply to figure out how to better your system. *figuring it out and fixing oversights turned my first brewday into a 10 hour affair

 

[uxo]

I just brewed my first all grain on friday and it was easy, cheap and 4 hours long. I have a 20$ mash tun, $30 turkey fryer (clearance from Target), ice bath chiller.
You can spend all the money your budget allows but i would keep it simple. Work your way up. Make sure the thermometer is calibrated and get some temp control. I'm using a $5 bucket for water bath temp control.

Wort chiller is on my to-do list. Ice bath 5gal wort was a pain.

 

[enrybwerd]

I am still fairly new to brewing (less than one year), and I jumped head-first into all grain brewing, so I'm only recommending it because I've never done extract.

I only have a few suggestions/considerations to give before you make a final decision.
1. Look, hourly if not daily, at craigslist. You can find keg shells on there for $20-25 and easily convert them to be your brew kettle, AND you'll already have room for more than 10-gallon if you decide you want larger batches. I have recently seen several DIY tutorials for converting the lid you cut off into the false bottom (Side note, I have not looked into BIAB very much, so I am just assuming this will still work.). You may also luck out and find someone selling their old equipment, or even for a burner.

2. Investigate your area for friends/groups/clubs that may be parting ways with old/unwanted equipment, or at the very least, seek out brewing friends who wouldn't mind loaning a piece of equipment to help with your brew day. (Some friends here pitched in together to buy a plate chiller and pump, so I've been fortunate to save money on buying a chiller and use it elsewhere)

3. Wait for sales. My LHBS just had a St. Patrick's day sale and offered 10, 15, or 17% off, and I know several online stores run promotions too.


I agree with everyone else's comments of doing days and weeks worth of research, and yes, sanitation and temperature control (and measurement!) are two of the most important things to understand. Once you've gotten your system down with your equipment, then you can start having fun tweaking and understanding how ingredients change beers.

Although I have yet to brew or ferment in a Texas summer heat, @BigFloyd makes a good point to consider how you are going to ferment. I would recommend measuring temperatures in your closets, cabinets or anywhere else that's dark and closed off to see if you could be able to maintain 60-70 degree temperatures using a swamp cooler. I know a chamber is next on my list.

I know this probably did not answer any of your questions, but hopefully it gave you something to consider.

Cheers

 

[unionrdr]

I did AE or extract with steeping grains for the better part of 2 years before going to partial mash. I still use the 5 gallon (20 QT) SS stock pot I started with to do partial boil,partial mash biab. I just got a 5 gallon paint strainer bag & put a cake cooling rack in the bottom of the BK/MT to keep the bag/grains from burning on the bottom. I mash 5lbs of grains in 2 gallons of water. Then sparge with 1.5 gallons of water for a total boil volume of 3.5 gallons. This helps with boil off as well. I can also maintain a even,rolling boil with the electric stove on "8.5" on the dial to reduce the high boil off I'd get by cranking it to "HI" on the dial.
Anyway,PB/PM BIAB was possible for me by just adding a 5 gallon paint strainer bag to what I already had. does the job & saves some money.

 

[eric19312]

I have yet to brew, but I am planning on buying supplies to do so. I have a question though. I have no interest in extract brewing.....seems like making a cake from a box mix to me. I do, however, wish to save money on my start up costs.....and am thinking of BIAB for all grain brewing to start my first experience in brewing. Do you guys think this is a good idea? I'm thinking that I will buy a 10 gallon brew Kettle (with spigot, false bottom, and filter for the spigot) and buy a deluxe beginners kit with 6 gallon glass fermenter......also thinking of just starting out with a counter flow chiller too. Am I going nuts, or would this be a good way to start brewing?

I'd go with immersion chiller to start and skip the glass carboy. I love my plastic buckets and manage to keep 4 of them pretty busy, would be a lot of $ to have 4 glass primaries...and a major bummer to lose a batch if one breaks.

+1 on dry yeast. US05 is my house yeast until I've got all the kinks worked out. Plenty of different types of ales I can brew with this stuff without getting crazy about yeast farming.

Oh and about temp control. My guess is that for brewing just about anything except some belgian varieties, an extract brewer with ability to control fermentation will brew better beer than an AG without.

 

[kempshark]

Thanks for all of the advice and suggestions. I didn't mean to downplay extract brewing or sound insulting. I'm just the type of person who prefers to do everything I can from scratch and as traditional as possible (same with cooking).

I figured that BIAB might be the best way to start out with all grain while still trying to keep down my initial costs and amount of equipment. I'm a little tight on funds right now and similiarly tight on space to a certain degree.

Being in Florida, a temperature controlled fermentation area has always been at the top of my list. A nice temp in the AC is still around 75deg.....still too warm for most of the beers I'm interested in making. I'm mainly interested in brewing stouts and porters. I also like quads, belgian strong ales, and some brown ales. Of course Iwill have to brew some lighter styles for the wife and her relatives.

I was interested in the glass carboys, because I thought it would be nice to be able to watch the fermentation process so to speak. I've been lurking on these forums for a while doing research. Also, the local brewery (well the tasting room) that I like to stop at for beers a couple days a week is also the headquarters and meeting place for the local homebrew club. I have been initiating some casual discussions with the brewer (at the brewery) and some of the members of the club about my interests. I am sure I will be attending some of their meetings either before or after I purchase my equipment.

 

[Fordzilla]

I brewed extract for 1 year before I stepped up to All Grain (BIAB). I would advise doing at least 4-5 extract batches before you step up. You should really get a feel for the overall process before you start adding thinks like strike temp, mash temp and sparging to worry about.

 

[BigFloyd]

I figured that BIAB might be the best way to start out with all grain while still trying to keep down my initial costs and amount of equipment. I'm a little tight on funds right now and similiarly tight on space to a certain degree.

Being in Florida, a temperature controlled fermentation area has always been at the top of my list. A nice temp in the AC is still around 75deg.....still too warm for most of the beers I'm interested in making.

With a limited budget, it's hard to figure out what the purchase priorities ought to be. I'd encourage you to put the ability to control temps way above getting the extras you need (like a 10+ gallon brew pot) to do BIAB right away.

Remember that the fermentation temp inside the carboy/bucket can run 7-10*F higher than the room temp when it's active, so our A/C running at 75* (as mine does too) causes ferment temps in the 80's . Unfortunately, in humid climates like Florida and East Texas, the "swamp cooler" method is much less effective than in dry places. If you first get yourself set up with a freezer/fridge and temp controller, you will forever bless the day that you did.

Good, consistent temp control ==> happy yeast ==> tasty brew.

 

[uxo]

4$ waterbath tub, 30$ turkey fryer, 20$ Coleman cooler, 5$ stainless hose filter.

 

[Beergazzi]

I scrathced my AG itch by getting a 5 gallon pot, a 2 gallon pot (a SS pressure cooker I already had) and 2 3gal better bottles, and I can mess around with recipes and make small AG BIAB batches when I feel like it.

My 5 gallon batches are Extract but I add mini-mashes to the front end using some added 2 row / specialty grains and my kits specialty grains, cause I like to play mad scientist.

 

[rklinck]

1. Look, hourly if not daily, at craigslist. You can find keg shells on there for $20-25 and easily convert them to be your brew kettle,

Ah, the benefits of living in a college town like Lubbock. Here in D.C. I see almost nothing but "kegs wanted" ads. Those Red Raiders sure know how to drink.

 

[rklinck]

Thanks for all of the advice and suggestions. I didn't mean to downplay extract brewing or sound insulting. I'm just the type of person who prefers to do everything I can from scratch and as traditional as possible (same with cooking).

I figured that BIAB might be the best way to start out with all grain while still trying to keep down my initial costs and amount of equipment. I'm a little tight on funds right now and similiarly tight on space to a certain degree.

I get what you are saying, but I think it is worth pointing out that making an all grain brew from a kit (or by following a recipe someone gives you) is not really doing it "from scratch" or traditional techniques. Really you are just adding one step to the process -- extracting the sugars, colors, and flavors from already malted grain. To use your food analogy, making a cake "from scratch" where I am simply following someone else's recipe is that much different from making a box cake. In fact, I tend to think that the Duncan Hines cakes I have made are MUCH better than an cake I have made from scratch.

If what you are interested in is simply having more control over the recipe or the process, you can start with extract recipes with steeped grains. And you can experiment with your own recipes by buying the extract and steeping grains by themselves instead of in kits.

With all that said, I get your idea. I brewed exactly 1 extract kit. I then brewed 2 extract/steeped grain recipes that I created myself. Then I moved to partial mash (using 3 pounds of dry malt extract) to supplement a smaller BIAB mash. By about my 7th brew, I was AG with a cooler. And I have not used a kits or a recipes someone else created since my very first batch.

Just do yourself a favor and do lots of research.

 

[unionrdr]

Nothing wrong with someone elses recipe. you're still doing all the brewing,etc. so it won't be exactly like another person's batch. But having one's own recipe come out great or at least good is quite gratifying.

 

[rklinck]

Nothing wrong with someone elses recipe. you're still doing all the brewing,etc. so it won't be exactly like another person's batch. But having one's own recipe come out great or at least good is quite gratifying.

I was not dissing using other people's recipes. Just pointing out that brewing all grain using someone else's recipe is not really much different than using a kit. Just extra steps.

 

[unionrdr]

I see what you're saying,but it's still your own process the recipe is being run through. Besides,it can be a good way to get a handle on what's needed to brew a certain style. For reference anyway.

 

[rklinck]

I see what you're saying,but it's still your own process the recipe is being run through. Besides,it can be a good way to get a handle on what's needed to brew a certain style. For reference anyway.

We are clearly trying to talk past each other in posts today. My point was to simply tell the OP that there is nothing magical about all grain. You can take control over an extract brew by creating/tweaking a recipe. I've used Kraft Mac N Cheese as an example. I would never try to make Mac n Cheese from scratch because it would never be as good as Kraft.

 

[unionrdr]

We are clearly trying to talk past each other in posts today. My point was to simply tell the OP that there is nothing magical about all grain. You can take control over an extract brew by creating/tweaking a recipe. I've used Kraft Mac N Cheese as an example. I would never try to make Mac n Cheese from scratch because it would never be as good as Kraft.

Not trying to talk past or over you at all. I just like to be clear of what I'm saying as apposed to what others might do or think. I speak strictly from experience I've gained over time.
And yeah,there's nothing mystical about mashing grains,once I tried it anyway. So your remarks on that point are sound. Ain't nothin to it but to do it...

 

[BigFloyd]

I've used Kraft Mac N Cheese as an example. I would never try to make Mac n Cheese from scratch because it would never be as good as Kraft.

Yuck. I wouldn't have chosen that for my analogous example.

Kraft Mac N Cheese is the Keystone/Natty Light of the macaroni universe.

 

[rklinck]

Yuck. I wouldn't have chosen that for my analogous example.

Kraft Mac N Cheese is the Keystone/Natty Light of the macaroni universe.

Are you crazy?!?! Kraft has MORE flavor than any other Mac n Cheese (granted I'm not sure it is either macaroni or cheese flavor). Nothing like BMC.

 

[BigFloyd]

I love a good mac & cheese. SWMBO can make a 5-cheese (using real cheese) mac that's killer.

I'd have to be starving to eat the Kraft stuff and dying of thirst to wash it down with Natty Light.

 

[unionrdr]

Aaaw geez. looks like we woke up the kids! We were just making points about the op's questions. He doesn't like someone elses recipes because it's not much different than a kit. I was just saying that you're the one brewing it,& the two likely will be a bit different. And since it came up,a great mac-n-cheese can be made by nuking cubed loaf of velveeta with a jar of medium salsa till melted & mixed together. Fold into a couple pounds of macaroni & serve on the side with some fresh fried chicken. An IPA or pale ale & you're there.