First batch done - inconsistency bottle-to-bottle

[imp81318]

As the title suggests, I am a new homebrewer with only 1 batch (Brewer's Best Summer Ale extract ingredient kit) under my belt. In general I'd say it was quite successful, but I definitely had some inconsistency between bottles. Some of them had an almost popcorn-like harshness to them that I assume is from some kind of infection. As you can see in this photo, there is a small dark mark on the inside of my bottling bucket (vertical line in the middle of the photo, just above the shadow line). I cannot feel any difference when I run my fingers over that spot (no sharpness indicative of a scratch or anything), and I believe that the spot has been there since before I used the bucket for anything.

I have two basic questions:
1. Is that spot something that I should be concerned about (i.e. should I pick up a new bottling bucket before my next batch)?
2. If that spot is something that could introduce contamination to my beer, is it possible/likely to have some bottles taste great while others have the off flavor? Or is it more likely that I just didn't do a good enough job of cleaning/sanitizing some of the bottles?

Thanks all, looking forward to brewing up a Belgian Tripel for my next batch.

 

[ol-hazza]

The inconsistency would lead me to think that the bottles are the source of the problem, not your bucket. How long has the beer been in the bottles? You may find that the flavour is removed after an extra month or so it the bottle.

 

[imp81318]

I bottled in mid-July and just finished the last of the batch this weekend. I did find that over time even the bad bottles got better and I got them less frequently. None of the bottles were so bad that I dumped them out, they just had a popcorny/harshness quality to them.

 

[tmm786]

I had a beer that a fellow homebrew group member critiqued as "popcorny." I didn't pick it up, I need to try it again soon and see if I can taste it. His thought was that I might have under pitched my yeast. Enough yeast will clean that flavor out.

As far as the inconsistency I had another beer that I feel the same way about. Going forward I am planning on changing up my cleaning/sanitation routine of the bottles before my next batch.

 

[kal]

Popcorn taste is Diacetyl. A very common defect in beer.

What yeast did you use? What fermentation temp?

To quote John Palmer's book:

"Diacetyl is most often described as a butter or butterscotch flavor. Smell an unpopped bag of butter flavor microwave popcorn for a good example. It is desired to a degree in many ales, but in some styles (mainly lagers) and circumstances it is unwanted and may even take on rancid overtones. Diacetyl can be the result of the normal fermentation process or the result of a bacterial infection. Diacetyl is produced early in the fermentation cycle by the yeast and is gradually reassimilated towards the end of the fermentation. A brew that experiences a long lag time due to weak yeast or insufficient aeration will produce a lot of diacetyl before the main fermentation begins. In this case there is often more diacetyl than the yeast can consume at the end of fermentation and it can dominate the flavor of the beer."

Kal

 

[imp81318]

According to the description of the recipe kit online it used Safale US - 05 dry yeast. Fermentation temp varied a bit as it was in my basement which is not thermostatically controlled (usually it maintains a fairly even temp down there, but with the kids and wife running in and out it would warm up quite a bit more than I expected during the day). I didn't have a thermometer down there, but I figure that it definitely got warmer than recommended at times. But if it was a problem with fermentation, wouldn't the problem be fairly prevalent throughout all of the bottles?

 

[duboman]

Nothing you described would come off as infection to me, Diacetyl as mentioned is the flavor of buttered movie popcorn and is a by product of fermentation. If the temps were high during fermentation or fluctuating and you did not leave the beer on the yeast long enough for the by product to be consumed back by the yeast then that's the problem.

From bottle to bottle I would expect little change but carbonation may have an effect on flavor profile. Are the bottles evenly carbonated or are some off? How did you prime the batch?

 

[kal]

Sorry - I missed the "inconsistency between bottles" comment. If that's the case then it's a packaging issue. If it was prior to packaging then they'd all taste the same.

So to answer your original question:

2. If that spot is something that could introduce contamination to my beer, is it possible/likely to have some bottles taste great while others have the off flavor?

No. It would have affected all bottles.

Or is it more likely that I just didn't do a good enough job of cleaning/sanitizing some of the bottles?

Unknown where the problem came from but if it only affects certain bottles, then it's something about how you bottled (packaged), so possibly yes to this one. As duboman mentioned, it may be the carb level too. How long did you carb and at what temp before chilling?

Kal

 

[imp81318]

I brewed on June 22 and bottled on the 14th day of fermentation (all primary). I carbed /bottle conditioned in the same utility closet that I fermented in. I'd say ambient air temps were typically 70-75 degrees during both stages with some days maybe reaching closer to 80 which I know is way too warm.

Carbonation was consistent between bottles that were refrigerated at the same time regardless of whether or not they had the off flavors.

 

[duboman]

With inconsistent fermentation temps I'd say 14 days was not long enough for the yeast to clean up, hence the diacetyl. Warmer temps during carbonating is not an issue, not sure though why some bottles would taste worse than others unless some bottles did in fact get infected some how

 

[kal]

Yup - definitely too warm. I find US-05 fairly resilient to higher temps but at up to 75-80F ambient in an enclosed space, the wort itself could have easily reached 80-85F. That's almost 20 degrees warmer than what that yeast likes.

Kal

 

[Koach]

If it was a yeast issue, I'd think it would be uniform in all of the bottles, even if the temperature wasn't optimal.

My questions would be:
1) How did you sanitize your bottles?
2) What did you do with them (and how much time elapsed) between the time they were sanitized and the time they were filled / sealed?

Also, if you primed them for bottling but didn't stir/mix well, the sugar could have been unevenly distributed, resulting in uneven carbonation to the point someone else made earlier. You said that you found no inconsistencies in carbonation and no correlation b/t carbonation and off-flavors, so I'd definitely look at my bottles (and maybe even the caps).

 

[imp81318]

If it was a yeast issue, I'd think it would be uniform in all of the bottles, even if the temperature wasn't optimal.

My questions would be:
1) How did you sanitize your bottles?
2) What did you do with them (and how much time elapsed) between the time they were sanitized and the time they were filled / sealed?

Also, if you primed them for bottling but didn't stir/mix well, the sugar could have been unevenly distributed, resulting in uneven carbonation to the point someone else made earlier. You said that you found no inconsistencies in carbonation and no correlation b/t carbonation and off-flavors, so I'd definitely look at my bottles (and maybe even the caps).

1. I had my bottling bucket filled with sanitizer. I sanitized the bottles in batches of 6-8 bottles at a time by filling all of the bottles with sanitizer from the bucket (IO Star San) and then dumping them back into the bucket before filling the next batch. I found that by doing them in batches of 6-8 bottles at a time the bottles had more than the required exposure time to ensure full sanitization.

2. After I sanitized the bottles I put them into an empty case with the top folded open until I filled them with beer. I'm guessing the maximum time between when a given bottle was sanitized and when it was filled with beer was around 1.5 hours (immediately after finishing sanitizing all the bottles I started bottling).

My best guess so far is that I might not have gotten all of the bottles filled to the brim with sanitizer allowing a narrow band around the top of the neck that did not get properly sanitized in some cases. the caps were soaked in a bowl of sanitizer and carefully picked up without touching the bottom of the caps during capping. For my next batch I'll have a pump sanitizer so hopefully this won't be an issue again.