First All-Grain, the chronicles

[elgatovolador]

Did my first all grain last night, started at 5pm and ended at 1am. Sleep deprived as I write this but overall enjoyed the process more than extract.

I ended up with a few “wtf” moments where I thought I had done enough research and I still got surprised by some things happening, hopefully someone can give me a hint of what was going on so I can correct it next time. Thanks in advance!

- I followed an online calculator for water volumes needed for mash tun and HLT, which were 4.1 gal and 5 gal respectively for 1.33 grist ratio. I made the choice to use 4.5 and 5.5 to buffer against any mistakes I could make so that changed my grist ratio...not sure what the consequences of this may be.

- While I was sparging, I tried to collect 280mL/min (0.074 gal/min) based on the research I did. In the act of collecting it, it seemed pretty darn slow. At the same time, it seemed that the flow was not constant so I had to open/close the valve to make sure grain wasn’t getting stuck, which worked sometimes. With my wort collection rate, the water level on the grain bed caught up to the sparge nozzle so I had to close the HLT valve. I ended up cutting some of the high temp silicone hose to make it higher. Eventually I turned stopped being so conservative with the mash valve and opened it more and had more flow to my boil kettle. I never really had a “sparge flow” like all the videos out there where you see the water “umbrella” into the mash. I ended up running out of sparge water 50 minutes in and I had only collected 4 gal (targeted 6.4) but luckily gravity helped me get the additional 2.5 out of the grain bed. Is there an adverse effect if you run out of sparge water?

- First time using Whirlfloc, is this it in action?

It’s a Pale Ale with Citra and Cascade hops btw. Hope it comes out good! If anyone has any ideas or suggestions for my questions above I’d like to hear them!

 

[ProblemChild]

if your calculations are right, you are supposed to run out of sparge water..........

Then you wait for the rest of the runnings from the grain bed to round out your volume.

If you are fly sparging, the basic goal is to keep the flow as you described, but meter the sparge water from the HLT to maintain a 2" layer over the top of the grain bed. For the most part, if it takes about 40-50 min for a 5 gallon batch to run out, that is fine. Nice and slow.

What is the filtration on your grain bed? Bazooka tube, False bottom, other?

 

[rekoob]

^^^ agree.

I shot for an hour fly sparging. As stated, regulate the HLT to maintatin the head pressure so to speak. If you notice the MT not draining then mess with that valve.

Your method all sounds good to me. I would have waited for the sediment to settle just a touch then take a reading.... after you take a reading, did you taste it? If you didn't, you should start. Any time you take a reading give it a taste so you can get a feel for how it is at each stage. It's wonderful.

You might also consider batch sparging instead of fly sparging. Either they will give the same or close to the same effecantcy or one will be better than the other. Don't do this now, it's just a in the future type of thing. Stick with what your doing for a number of batches to get your process down.

You Sir, just dove into the rabbit hole... Enjoy!

 

[elgatovolador]

if your calculations are right, you are supposed to run out of sparge water..........

Then you wait for the rest of the runnings from the grain bed to round out your volume.

If you are fly sparging, the basic goal is to keep the flow as you described, but meter the sparge water from the HLT to maintain a 2" layer over the top of the grain bed. For the most part, if it takes about 40-50 min for a 5 gallon batch to run out, that is fine. Nice and slow.

What is the filtration on your grain bed? Bazooka tube, False bottom, other?

You just answered my biggest doubt...nowhere in my research I found that you were supposed to run out of sparge water. It makes sense now, I thought I was doing something wrong. The whole time I had a solid inch or two of water over the bed, except at the end when I was trying to get the extra gallon needed for my full pre-boil wort volume.

And I’m using a false bottom. I found that a lot of grain passed near the end when I was trying to fire fight my stuck mash.

Thanks!

 

[elgatovolador]

^^^ agree.

I shot for an hour fly sparging. As stated, regulate the HLT to maintatin the head pressure so to speak. If you notice the MT not draining then mess with that valve.

Your method all sounds good to me. I would have waited for the sediment to settle just a touch then take a reading.... after you take a reading, did you taste it? If you didn't, you should start. Any time you take a reading give it a taste so you can get a feel for how it is at each stage. It's wonderful.

You might also consider batch sparging instead of fly sparging. Either they will give the same or close to the same effecantcy or one will be better than the other. Don't do this now, it's just a in the future type of thing. Stick with what your doing for a number of batches to get your process down.

You Sir, just dove into the rabbit hole... Enjoy!

Next time I will definitely let the sediment settle...I will probably try whirpooling as well.

I took a pre-boil measurement and it was around 1.04ish and tasted it when it cooled down. It was very very sweet/malty. I used 11lb of 2-row and 0.75 carapils and 0.5 40 crystal. Eventually I hope to develop my palate to know the differences between grains at this step.

I tasted it post boil (the one in the picture) and appreciated the bitterness of my hop additions, with still a strong malt taste. Can’t wait for my yeast to eat all that sugar and leave me with my hop water!

And definitely in the rabbit hole! My wife had no idea what she got us into when she got me my starter kit 2 years ago haha I’ve been doing extract for two years and finally went all grain this round

Thanks for the insight!

 

[CascadesBrewer]

I ended up running out of sparge water 50 minutes in and I had only collected 4 gal (targeted 6.4) but luckily gravity helped me get the additional 2.5 out of the grain bed. Is there an adverse effect if you run out of sparge water?

Recipe calcs might give you an exact amount of sparge water to hit your target, but I always prepped about an extra gallon. A more exact number is useful for BIAB or batch sparging, but with fly sparging the runnings will gradually get thinner and you can cut off the flow once you hit your target volume.

7 hours, huh? I moved to BIAB, but for me a good fly sparge day was about 4.5 hours from start to flame off, and then about another hour to chill and aerate while I cleaned up (a whirlpool stand would add more time). What is your heat source? Back when I moved from stove to propane burner that cut a solid hour off a brew day.

 

[Alex4mula]

That first picture looks exactly like when I started to use the wirflock on my extract kits.

 

[seatazzz]

Whirlfloc can do some weird looking stuff. I've had it create great big ugly yeast clumps that float around for a while before settling to the bottom, looked awful but it turned out great. You'll enjoy the results though, when your beer clears up once in the package. Some here swear by using gelatine, others irish moss (basically dried up shredded fish bladders), but whirlfloc is so easy; just toss the tablet in and you're done, no measuring needed.

All grain gives you so much more scope for beer recipes, you're gonna love it. And if you go about it right, can be cheaper as well if you buy your grain in bulk.

Might I suggest, if you're worried about grain bits coming out at the end of your sparge, using mash-in-a-bag? It's not BIAB, just lining your mash tun with a large mesh bag (over your false bottom as well) that will keep those grain bits where they belong. I've been using the same bag for over 2 years now and it works just as well as it did at the beginning. And it makes cleanup a literal snap; dump out your grain, rinse the bag, and snap it a few times in the yard (you WILL get grain bits all over you) and hang up to dry; ready for the next brewday. Rinse out the tun with some hot water, and you're good to go. Using this method has reduced my cleanup time to less than 30 minutes.

I'll also +1 to the above suggestion for batch sparging over fly; takes less time, and maybe you lose a few efficiency percentage points, but the reduced stress in the brewday makes up for it. Can't wait to hear how your brew turns out!

 

[elgatovolador]

Whirlfloc can do some weird looking stuff. I've had it create great big ugly yeast clumps that float around for a while before settling to the bottom, looked awful but it turned out great. You'll enjoy the results though, when your beer clears up once in the package. Some here swear by using gelatine, others irish moss (basically dried up shredded fish bladders), but whirlfloc is so easy; just toss the tablet in and you're done, no measuring needed.

All grain gives you so much more scope for beer recipes, you're gonna love it. And if you go about it right, can be cheaper as well if you buy your grain in bulk.

Might I suggest, if you're worried about grain bits coming out at the end of your sparge, using mash-in-a-bag? It's not BIAB, just lining your mash tun with a large mesh bag (over your false bottom as well) that will keep those grain bits where they belong. I've been using the same bag for over 2 years now and it works just as well as it did at the beginning. And it makes cleanup a literal snap; dump out your grain, rinse the bag, and snap it a few times in the yard (you WILL get grain bits all over you) and hang up to dry; ready for the next brewday. Rinse out the tun with some hot water, and you're good to go. Using this method has reduced my cleanup time to less than 30 minutes.

I'll also +1 to the above suggestion for batch sparging over fly; takes less time, and maybe you lose a few efficiency percentage points, but the reduced stress in the brewday makes up for it. Can't wait to hear how your brew turns out!

Thanks for the suggestion, once I was done and started cleaning up at 1 am I was like f this haha I ended up making a mess trying to dump all the spent grains in a trash bag...and I forgot there was still water in the grains so it was a big watery grainy mess!

So do you just use a BIAB bag but just go about fly sparging like one would normally do?

 

[RM-MN]

So do you just use a BIAB bag but just go about fly sparging like one would normally do?

You certainly can do the fly sparging if you want. The bag is nothing but a bigger filter. Unless you really like spending an extra hour fly sparging, batch sparging gets you almost the same efficinecy while taking less time. You don't even need to heat the water, cool water does the same thing.

 

[Soulshine2]

Did my first all grain last night, started at 5pm and ended at 1am. Sleep deprived as I write this but overall enjoyed the process more than extract.

I ended up with a few “wtf” moments where I thought I had done enough research and I still got surprised by some things happening, hopefully someone can give me a hint of what was going on so I can correct it next time. Thanks in advance!

- I followed an online calculator for water volumes needed for mash tun and HLT, which were 4.1 gal and 5 gal respectively for 1.33 grist ratio. I made the choice to use 4.5 and 5.5 to buffer against any mistakes I could make so that changed my grist ratio...not sure what the consequences of this may be.

- While I was sparging, I tried to collect 280mL/min (0.074 gal/min) based on the research I did. In the act of collecting it, it seemed pretty darn slow. At the same time, it seemed that the flow was not constant so I had to open/close the valve to make sure grain wasn’t getting stuck, which worked sometimes. With my wort collection rate, the water level on the grain bed caught up to the sparge nozzle so I had to close the HLT valve. I ended up cutting some of the high temp silicone hose to make it higher. Eventually I turned stopped being so conservative with the mash valve and opened it more and had more flow to my boil kettle. I never really had a “sparge flow” like all the videos out there where you see the water “umbrella” into the mash. I ended up running out of sparge water 50 minutes in and I had only collected 4 gal (targeted 6.4) but luckily gravity helped me get the additional 2.5 out of the grain bed. Is there an adverse effect if you run out of sparge water?

- First time using Whirlfloc, is this it in action? View attachment 620168View attachment 620169View attachment 620170

It’s a Pale Ale with Citra and Cascade hops btw. Hope it comes out good! If anyone has any ideas or suggestions for my questions above I’d like to hear them!

welcome, nice looking pale ale .
As for your technique , were you "open AG brewing" or BIAB?
I dont fly sparge nor do I measure it out . I run an electric tier (gravity) rig. I keep my kettle of water (7 gallons in a 8 gallon pot, 1 gallon cold water in a jug to adjust mash temps as necessary) on the high tier heating as I prepare to step mash , first run of hot water preheats my cooler mash tun , I put about a gallon of 170 water in to pre-heat, as it heats the (cold) tun, it cools off a little depending on ambient temperature. In order to get my pre-grain mash temps ,my Second run of water,I add more (still heating in the high tier), then add the grist, as that will again reduce the heat ,let it sit its allotted time , add more hotter water to raise the temps and stir for rests and by that time I have my initial volume and it has converted. Run that to the boil kettle (heating as soon as possible) and batch sparge until I creep up to my pre-boil volume. Which ,in my rigs case ,by the time I come out the other end with trub ,boil off rate and dead space, is 7.5 gallons for a 5-6 gallon batch . By the time the last sparge drains to the kettle its only a few minutes until it comes to boil.
Your first few brews is not only figuring out the recipe and procedure, its knowing your rig and how it works for you.

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

Thanks for the suggestion, once I was done and started cleaning up at 1 am I was like f this haha I ended up making a mess trying to dump all the spent grains in a trash bag...and I forgot there was still water in the grains so it was a big watery grainy mess!

So do you just use a BIAB bag but just go about fly sparging like one would normally do?

I used to have a bazooka filter in a cooler MLT for all grain. I still use the cooler, but I removed the bazooka and just use a custom BIAB that I got online. I mash like I did before (typical 1.5qt/lb mash thickness), then I lift the bag out, drain the first runnings, lower the bag back in and do a batch sparge. Stir like crazy, lift the bag back out and drain the 2nd runnings.

It requires a bit more coordination for water amounts so that you end up with the correct amount in the kettle, and a ratcheting hoist for the bag is nice, but it's efficient, fast, simple and clean up is easy with the bag.

So technically, I guess I do a 3 vessel (cooler MLT, cooler HLT and boil kettle) MIAB (Mash In A Bag) batch sparge process.

 

[elgatovolador]

Is this wirfloc doing its thing?

 

[Lefou]

Yes, the addition of whirlfloc will cause proteins to clump or coagulate.
It looks strange at first but once the yeast becomes active the wort will cloud over and give the impression of a swirling snow globe.
After the majority of fermentation is complete the raw beer will start to clarify as the yeast drops.

 

[elgatovolador]

Yes, the addition of whirlfloc will cause proteins to clump or coagulate.
It looks strange at first but once the yeast becomes active the wort will cloud over and give the impression of a swirling snow globe.
After the majority of fermentation is complete the raw beer will start to clarify as the yeast drops.

The clumps disappeared, I’m assuming they dropped down to the bottom.

3 days after pitching I didn’t notice any krausen, I ended up shaking the carboy up some to maybe restart the yeast. A day later I ended up getting good krausen and airlock activity.

Anyone have any thoughts on Whirlfloc contributing to a sluggish fermentation start? I also may have not aerated my wort enough before pitching...so that’s probably what happened here but I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts?

 

[Bklmt2000]

Anyone have any thoughts on Whirlfloc contributing to a sluggish fermentation start? I also may have not aerated my wort enough before pitching...so that’s probably what happened here but I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts?

Whirlfloc has no effect on how fast or slow a fermentation takes off; that's a function of the amount of yeast pitched, its viability at pitching, how well the wort is aerated, etc.

That you may not have aerated the wort enough is a likely reason the fermentation was sluggish to start.

Leave this batch alone to do its thing, make a note to aerate more next time, and chalk it up to a learning experience.

 

[elgatovolador]

I’m dry hoping this Thursday and will keg and carbonate 3 days after dry hopping with 1 oz Citra and 1 oz cascade. If it turns out good this will be on tap at our wedding! Fingers crossed!