First all grain, how does this sound? - Irish Red

[NickThoR]

Ingredients:

5 lbs 2-Row Pale Malt
3 lbs Maris Otter Pale Malt
2 lbs CaraMunich Malt
2 lbs Crystal Malt 60L
8 ozs Melanoidin Malt
8 ozs Special B Malt
1 ounce Goldings Hops
1 packet Safale S-04 Dry Yeast
Instructions:
Mash for 60 minutes at 155 °F:

Boil Schedule:

1 ounce Goldings Hops leafs at 30 minutes




I want something thats pretty malty and low on the hops, I'v been looking around at a bunch of recipes and I think what I've come up with sounds pretty tasty, but I just want a little reassurance/advice since it'll be my first all-grain.
Also - since its my first all grain, im not really sure how my efficiency is, could i check what my og is somehow and maybe add a lb of brown sugar or something at the end of the boil incase its low?

 

[dhoyt714]

My og was low my first AG. When you sparge make sure you beat the water up to at least 180 to ensure it reaches 168 when it hits the grain bed. Also don't rush it, the slower the better.

Good luck and have fun!

 

[motorneuron]

Whoa there, buddy! You've got wayyyyy too much on the crystal malts there. Looks like 4.5 pounds? That's far more than you'd want--maybe a pound, or if you were doing some crazy Russian imperial stout, 2 pounds. (This is a common mistake for going from partial mash or steeped grain to all-grain, since crystal is so common as a steeped grain.)

For your first AG batch, I'd really recommend using someone else's tried and true recipe. You will have enough to worry about for your first AG batch that building a recipe on top is a bit overwhelming, I think. Check out the Irish reds on the forums: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f65/ In fact, I think Irish red is a slightly tricky style--the balance is subtle in terms of both flavor and color.

If you definitely want to roll your own, I recommend picking one of those recipes as a starting point and changing at most one or two things.

As for your gravity question--yes, you can and should take a gravity sample of the wort before it goes in the kettle, so that you can estimate what your OG will be (higher than the kettle sample, because you'll boil off some water). Note that you will need to adjust for the temperature--hydrometer gravity readings are calibrated for room temperature, and will read much lower at 150F or whatever temperature your runoff is. For making up any deficit, I'd recommend malt extract, or plain sugar; a pound of brown might have more flavor impact than you want.

 

[NickThoR]

how about knocking it down to around

8 oz caramunich
12 oz crytsal malt 60
8 oz melanoidin
4 oz special b

still to much?

and good point on the brown sugar, light dme makes more sense

 

[motorneuron]

I don't think 1.5 lbs of crystal is what I would use, but I don't think it will result in a disaster, either. I'd still recommend using somebody else's recipe as a starting point, though.

While we're talking crystal, you could also try to use British crystal malt, rather than the mix of German (cara), American (crystal 60L), and Belgian (special B). British crystal will have flavors more appropriate for an Irish beer.

 

[Yooper]

how about knocking it down to around

8 oz caramunich
12 oz crytsal malt 60
8 oz melanoidin
4 oz special b

still to much?

and good point on the brown sugar, light dme makes more sense

Still quite a bit, and the melanoidin is sort of odd in there. And I agree that you probably want British caramel malts and not US and German malts unless you can't get anything else!

I like a tiny bit of roasted barley in my Irish red, to give that "dry" finish.

I'd probably cut much of the crystal, and add a bit of roasted barley, and leave out the melanoidin.

 

[motorneuron]

Yeah, i agree with the roasted barley. It also helps on the color--a little very dark gets you red, rather than brown (which can happen if you use a lot of somewhat-dark grains).

 

[TzeentchPlayer]

I think the general rule of thumb is that no more than 8-10% of your grain bill should consist of crystals, caras, special B, etc. I used this rule on my Irish Red and it came out fantastic.

And if you're really shooting for that "red" color, use some CaraRed.

 

[NickThoR]

ok,

drop the total special grains to 10 percent or less, so
- 8 oz caramel 70-80 (Bairds)
- 2 oz roasted barley

the melanoidon was for red color, body and malty flavor,
and my thinking with the special b ( iwas gonna add 4 oz), was to replace what i had orignally put in, what is chocolate malt, in order to get more pronounced caramel/toffee tones

this a little closer? drop the special b or keep it?

I really appreciate the advice guys, I've only done extract so i am mainly going off of written descriptions for the grain flavor/feel/etc.

I am okay for it being a little off of style, Im not a stickler, but i don't wanna be completely off and be making a stout or something.

 

[Yooper]

ok,

drop the total special grains to 10 percent or less, so
- 8 oz caramel 70-80 (Bairds)
- 2 oz roasted barley

the melanoidon was for red color, body and malty flavor,
and my thinking with the special b ( iwas gonna add 4 oz), was to replace what i had orignally put in, what is chocolate malt, in order to get more pronounced caramel/toffee tones

this a little closer? drop the special b or keep it?

I really appreciate the advice guys, I've only done extract so i am mainly going off of written descriptions for the grain flavor/feel/etc.

I am okay for it being a little off of style, Im not a stickler, but i don't wanna be completely off and be making a stout or something.

I don't agree to a blanket "drop the specialty grains to 10% or less"- sometimes they are needed to get to where you want to go.

I like the special b or crystal 120L, and I like a lighter crystal as well for depth of flavor and some sweetness. The red color will come from the roasted barley, as well as a hint of flavor. I'd go to 4 ounces with the roasted barley.

I'd also use all maris otter for the base malt, instead of using US two-row in it. It'll give a warm bready flavor that is so present in British beers.

How about simplifying, and making it something like:

10 pounds maris otter
.75 pound crystal 40L (or the 60L you have listed will be fine)
.25 pound special B (or a tad more if you really want toffee notes)
.25 pound roasted barley

Oh, and increase your boil time on your hops to 60 minutes- 30 minutes won't give you enough bittering to balance the sweet malt.

 

[NickThoR]

Aweome guys, I really appreciate the help!
I think im gonna follow y'alls guidance, all marris otter, british caramel malts, and a little barley. similar to this recipe -
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f65/copperhead-red-ale-326549/