First All Grain Has "Mash" Taste

[yellowFattyBean]

Hi,

I've just upgraded my equipment from brewing 5 gallon DME batches to 10 gallon system using keggles.

I've recently sampled some a week after priming and I can't help but notice that there's a distinctive "mash" taste in the beer. It'll probably go away in time but I was really hoping I could pinpoint where that taste is coming from.

Throughout the brew, the grain bed got stuck and I had no choice but to extract the sparged water back through the top of the mash tum causing a heap of grain to get into the brew kettle, thus causing it to get into the carboy. Also, during the mash, the temperature dropped to around 138.

Does any of this sound familiar to anyone?

Thanks!

 

[doug293cz]

I don't have an answer for you, but if you have a local homebrew club, they often have folks (often BJCP certified) who can help you pinpoint off flavors, and where they might come from. Take some of your beer to a meeting for them to sample, and provide feedback.

Brew on

 

[thehaze]

If the grainbed got stuck, simply stir slowly and make it " fluffy " again. Use your paddle or whatever you use for mashing the grains. If you removed the wort from the top of the grainbed, that could mean you did not get all the sugars from the grains ( poor efficiency ), thus the wort might not have been " sweet " enough, translating to the mashy taste you are experiencing.

But can you provide more details on the recipe, yeast, fermentation temps. and schedule, etc.?

 

[rlmiller10]

Not sure what a mashy taste is. Also not sure how much grain got into the kettle. But if it was significant and you then boiled that grain you certainly would have extracted tannin and other flavors that would not be normal.

 

[doug293cz]

Not sure what a mashy taste is. Also not sure how much grain got into the kettle. But if it was significant and you then boiled that grain you certainly would have extracted tannin and other flavors that would not be normal.

Boiling grains doesn't extract tannins unless the pH is above about 6. Wort pH in the kettle should be 5.6 or less. If boiling grain extracted tannins, no one would ever do decoction mashes (where some of the grain is boiled intentionally.)

Brew on

 

[65C]

isn't 138F too low to mash? do you know if it converted?

 

[Trail]

I've recently sampled some a week after priming and I can't help but notice that there's a distinctive "mash" taste in the beer. It'll probably go away in time but I was really hoping I could pinpoint where that taste is coming from.


Thanks!

I'm interpreting "mashy taste" to mean a starchy, overly doughy flavor. If that's correct, it suggests incomplete conversion to me: this could come from your temperature dropping too low or your unremedied, stuck sparge.

I assume "after priming" means you've bottled the beer, which puts this batch past help. By all means let it age, but remember that yeast can't eat unconverted sugar... that's why we mash to begin with. If you're keg priming, you might be able to fix this by adding brewer's enzymes... I'm not sure if they help with totally unconverted starches, but it's worth a shot.

I'm more optimistic about your next batch, though. Make sure you:

• Add grain SLOWLY, stirring as you go. This helps you avoid dough balls which lower efficiency and can release unconverted starches in some cases.
• Throw in some rice hulls. These shouldn't be needed most of the time but they're good insurance.
• Check out your filter... I use a FF Titan false bottom and it's never stuck a sparge. Might be worth an upgrade.
• Try a thinner mash!
• If against all your precautions the mash gets stuck, try blowing into the tube so the air can push stuck grain out of the filter. This is often enough to get things going again.
• Get a sleeping bag to wrap around your mash tun to prevent temperature losses. Realistically most of your temp losses came from fussing with the open tun trying to un-stick the sparge, but more insulation almost never hurts!

 

[yellowFattyBean]

Thank you for the replies. Trail, I was in fact bottling, not kegging. There was a considerable amount of grain that go into the brew kettle... enough to warrant using a sieve whilst transferring to the fermenters.

I did a second brew last weekend and I maintained a temperature of around 150 and this time I recirculated and sparged slowly. Last time I open all of the ball valves all the way which probably cause the grain bed to get stuck.

I just have 10 gallons of the last batch to get through first.

 

[CudaJoe]

I always do the iodine test to determine complete conversion. sometimes even if we follow directions to a T and we know theoretically that the conversion should be efficient, it is not always the case. Always best to test.

 

[ba-brewer]

what style of beer did you brew which was "mashy" and what kind of beers did you do before using DME?

If your temps drop the conversion can slow which can lower the gravity of the wort. Did your wort come close to expectation on gravity?

Certain types or vendors of grain come across grainy to me, sort a raw grain type aftertaste when fresh(like for a couple weeks in the keg). Fortunately that taste does seem to go away with time(like around 4weeks). The two that come to mind are Rahr 2row and castle pilsner.

 

[jabba11]

I've been brewing for a good long time. Early on I checked for conversion. In short I have never had a "failed" conversion and so I don't bother anymore UNLESS I noticed a problem with the temp which I don't really have anymore because of my system.

 

[yellowFattyBean]

what style of beer did you brew which was "mashy" and what kind of beers did you do before using DME?

If your temps drop the conversion can slow which can lower the gravity of the wort. Did your wort come close to expectation on gravity?

Certain types or vendors of grain come across grainy to me, sort a raw grain type aftertaste when fresh(like for a couple weeks in the keg). Fortunately that taste does seem to go away with time(like around 4weeks). The two that come to mind are Rahr 2row and castle pilsner.

I've been hoping to get a really good saison recipe. This is what I would do most of the time when doing a DME/partial grain batch. Never once did they taste "mashy".

Based on most of the comments on this thread, paying proper attention to the specifics such as PH and starch checks is something that is being somewhat ignored.

 

[rlmiller10]

Boiling grains doesn't extract tannins unless the pH is above about 6. Wort pH in the kettle should be 5.6 or less. If boiling grain extracted tannins, no one would ever do decoction mashes (where some of the grain is boiled intentionally.)

Brew on

very good point on the PH.