First AG batch -- acceptable method?

[borden]

I grew some Centennial hops this year and wanted to use them in a very simple brew to showcase their flavor and aroma. I've also recently started doing partial mashes, using DeathBrewer's method. When I've done the PM, I've always had plenty of extra headspace in my 5 gallon pot, so I thought, why not do an all grain batch, as long as it's something on the lower-ABV end of the scale (i.e. a smaller volume of grains).

After reading a lot about proper BIAB methods, I'm thinking my plan has some sort of flaw in it, so would someone who's been around the block a few times let me know if I'm forgetting something important here?

Oh, and it's a SMaSH, since I really am looking to highlight my homegrown hops. This is a batch for me.

The plan:

Mash 9.5lbs Briess 2-Row at 154F for ~60 minutes, using 1.25 quarts per pound (just under 3 gallons of water). Equipment is a 5 gallon paint strainer in a 5 gallon stainless pot.

After testing for conversion (taste test), top up to 4 gallons of water for better hop utilization.

Boil with 1 oz Centennial pellets for 60 mins.
Continual addition of 3.5oz Centennial leaf hops from 15 mins to flameout.

Top off to 5 gallons of water in the fermenter. Add rehydrated US-05. 3 weeks at 63F.

It all seems straightforward enough for me. The Green Bay Rackers calculator page suggests the mash will take up 3.73 gallons of space, so within my 5 gallon max. I'd do a full volume boil but neither my pot nor my stove would make that easy.

Should be beer, right? I'm mostly concerned because some BIAB explanations I've seen note that for AG, you should be mashing with the full batch volume plus some extra water for boiloff. While I know that would be ideal, topping off shouldn't be a problem, right? I'm looking for about 4% ABV and ~30 IBU, which Beer Calculus shows as the result of this process.

Thanks for any feedback, even if it's just "RDWHAHB"!

 

[smagee]

It should be beer, yes. I'd be concerned about the breathing room as far as total space is concerned; in my experience, ~10lbs of grain will take up a lot more space than ~1-1.5 gallons of liquid. I'm not saying you can't try it, but I would absolutely not be comfortable mashing that amount of grain in such a small pot (which is largely why I ended up upgrading my pot, despite still being on a stove top).

 

[borden]

It should be beer, yes. I'd be concerned about the breathing room as far as total space is concerned; in my experience, ~10lbs of grain will take up a lot more space than ~1-1.5 gallons of liquid. I'm not saying you can't try it, but I would absolutely not be comfortable mashing that amount of grain in such a small pot (which is largely why I ended up upgrading my pot, despite still being on a stove top).

I was a little skeptical myself, so instead of finding out the hard way that it won't work, I'm thinking I might down the batch size to 4 gallons and adjust the hops schedule to keep the IBUs the same. Maybe do 7# of grain instead. Thanks for the feedback.

 

[mrbippers]

1.25 quart/lb is based on a mash that is going to be sparged afterwards. You wind up with a larger volume than your final batch size and boil down to the end volume. Without the larger volume you wind up leaving a ton of sugars still in the grain. I'd have to image you'll have terrible efficiency like this.

 

[imrook]

Do you have a cooler and a pitcher in your house? If so I would recommend you try a technique similar to one I used for my first all-grain batch. Heat your strike water (3.5 gallons) to 167-170 and pour it in your cooler. Let it pre-heat the cooler walls, which will bring the water temp down to about 160. Dough-in your grains and stir until you hit 155 (it will lose some temp over time.) Let mash rest for 60 minutes. While the mash is resting, bring 2 gallons of sparge water to 170 degrees. in the kettle.

After 60 minutes, it's time to "run off." Place your paint strainer bag over a bucket or large pot. Use your pitcher to scoop up the mash from the cooler and pour it through the strainer into the bucket. Try to keep the grain out of the bucket (i.e. in the strainer.) Some fine particles are going to get through and there's nothing you can do about that so don't worry. The grain will absorb 1.25 gallons of water leaving you with 2.25 in the bucket. Once you have strained all the wort out you can, pour the grains back in the cooler, pour the sparge water over them, stir and close the lid.

Next, get the wort out of the bucket and into the brew kettle and get the heat going. After about 5 minutes, repeat the straining procedure. You should get the full 2 gallons out this time since the grain is fully saturated with water. Add the newly strained 2 gallons to the brew kettle, giving you 4.25 gallons of wort total. Do your 60 minute boil and top off to 5 gallons in the primary.

Since you're new to all-grain, you're probably not thinking about efficiency. BeerCalculus assumes 75% efficiency by default. With a setup like this, you're gonna get low efficiency. 50% is a very real number and could even be lower than that. So here's what I calculate for your O.G: 37 ppg * 9.5 lbs * .50 (efficiency) / 5 gallons = 35 = 1.035 With an F.G. around 1.008 that gives you an ABV of (35 - 8) * .131 = 3.5% If you really want to hit 4%, I would say up your grain bill to 10.25 lbs. That will give 37 ppg * 10.5 lbs * .50 / 5 gallons = 39 = 1.039 With F.G. 1.008, that's (39 - 8) * .131 = 4% ABV.

It may seem a bit daunting, but believe me you can do it. I did my first all-grain batch this way and the beer turned out great. That batch gave me the motivation to build my mash tun and immersion chiller and go all-grain. I'm also harvesting yeast now and crank out batches at half the price of extract and have more control and a better understanding of the whole process. Do this batch, you'll be glad you did!

 

[TopherM]

Don't forget that you have to dry out your hops before use. You can't just use "wet" hops right off the vine!

 

[Backslider]

I have recently started doing AG BIAB with similar equipment, OP.

Because I wanted to be able to boilf my full volume I do 3.5 gallon batches in a 24qt stock pot.

After mashing I top off to just under 5 gallons and boil - I use a 5 gallon glass carboy for primary and a 3 gallon glass carboy for secondary. I'm getting about 65% efficiency using a jumbo grain bag as a strainer and mashing for 60 minutes.


If you try for the 5 gallon batch and have problems, just downsize it a bit until you can get a bigger pot.


(I just received a 15.5g sanke keg that will become a keggle, but I haven't had a chance to start on it yet and don't have a burner atm)

 

[bob3000]

I brew using an unconverted cooler and a nylon mesh bag. I use normal mashing technique and batch sparge. So far it has worked fine. If I where you I would pour the first runnings in to another vessel and then batch sparge. You can top up with water but its risky so i would probably go down to a 4 gallon brew.

There is no reason I can see why this wouldn't work.

 

[TopherM]

IMROOK, the OP stated that he is going to BIAB, not traditional three-vessel AG brewing. Your post has nothing to do with BIAB techniques. Don't confuse the poor lad!

 

[imrook]

Really, TopherM? How is your last post helping anyone? Would you care to quote the line where the OP said he is going to BIAB. It seemed to me that he was considering BIAB due to a lack of AG equipment. I was suggesting an alternative to allow him to get a bigger boil because as smagee said, 10# of grain is gonna take up a lot of kettle space. I'm just offering my advice which is what this forum is here for.

 

[TopherM]

Would you care to quote the line where the OP said he is going to BIAB.

Seriously?

I've also recently started doing partial mashes, using DeathBrewer's method (DeathBrewer's method is partial volume stovetop BIAB).

....reading a lot about proper BIAB methods...

would someone who's been around the block a few times let me know if I'm forgetting something important here? (OP goes on to describe his upcoming BIAB plans)

some BIAB explanations I've seen note that for AG, you should be mashing with the full batch volume

 

[tryn2brew]

Maybe a bit different than the OP is looking for, but a very good read. This is the method I've been using lately:
Easy Stovetop All-Grain Brewing (with pics)
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/easy-stovetop-all-grain-brewing-pics-90132/

 

[TopherM]

Easy Stovetop All-Grain Brewing (with pics)
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/easy-stovetop-all-grain-brewing-pics-90132/

That is the Deathbrewer's partial volume BIAB that the OP references in his post, so that's what he's already doing, just PM instead of AG.

 

[maltoftheearth]

Since you're new to all-grain, you're probably not thinking about efficiency. BeerCalculus assumes 75% efficiency by default. With a setup like this, you're gonna get low efficiency. 50% is a very real number and could even be lower than that. So here's what I calculate for your O.G: 37 ppg * 9.5 lbs * .50 (efficiency) / 5 gallons = 35 = 1.035 With an F.G. around 1.008 that gives you an ABV of (35 - 8) * .131 = 3.5% If you really want to hit 4%, I would say up your grain bill to 10.25 lbs. That will give 37 ppg * 10.5 lbs * .50 / 5 gallons = 39 = 1.039 With F.G. 1.008, that's (39 - 8) * .131 = 4% ABV.

I didn't realize efficiency was so low for that sort of setup. I always assumed that BeerSmith's 70% or 75% was standard for most AG setups. That makes me feel a lot better about the results I have achieved doing AG in the past.

 

[borden]

Thanks all. My plan is to proceed with a 4 gallon batch, hoping for 55-60% efficiency (which I get when doing PM). I do plan on sticking to BIAB for the time being, but appreciate the suggestions about other methods. After this I think I'll go back to doing PM batches with big grain bills (5-6 lbs), since I can do a better job sparging with the extra headspace, but hey, this will be a fun experiment anyway. I just want to taste my hops after their first year on the bine!

Cheers!

 

[Backslider]

borden,

I think you'll be happy with the results. I've just started tasting my first AG-BIAB and it's much better than the partial mashes I was doing.

 

[borden]

Well, I brewed today using 7# of the 2-row and aiming for a full boil at 4 gallons. Worked out fairly well. I got efficiency around 55%, so my OG was about 1.035 or so -- I'm hoping the US-05 finishes low, though I overshot my mash temp by a bit too (156F, which I assumed would drop a lot faster than it did).

In any case, it's nice to have done an AG batch just to get that milestone out of the way. I can't wait to try this beer, and since the ABV shouldn't be too much more than 3.5%, I suspect 1 bottle might turn into 3 or 4 pretty quickly when all is said and done... how awful.

Thanks for the advice, all. I'll probably get a ~7 gallon kettle this holiday season so I can do stovetop AG all the time, using the should-be-patented DeathBrewer method. Can't wait!

 

[imrook]

Congrats on your first AG batch. It's really not as hard as it seems before actually doing it. On my first AG batch using my mash tun, I got low efficiency, coupled with too much wort volume I had a much lower than expected O.G. The beer tastes great -- one of my friends says it's "the best beer" I've made yet. As for the kettle, I would highly recommend you go for a 10 gallon -- especially if you're going to BIAB. A 7 gallon won't have enough room for all your grains plus 6 gallons of water, which is what you need to get 5 gallons into the fermenter.

 

[borden]

Congrats on your first AG batch. It's really not as hard as it seems before actually doing it. On my first AG batch using my mash tun, I got low efficiency, coupled with too much wort volume I had a much lower than expected O.G. The beer tastes great -- one of my friends says it's "the best beer" I've made yet. As for the kettle, I would highly recommend you go for a 10 gallon -- especially if you're going to BIAB. A 7 gallon won't have enough room for all your grains plus 6 gallons of water, which is what you need to get 5 gallons into the fermenter.

Good advice, though I do want to keep my brewing to the stovetop (living in Minnesota and all), which could be an issue, couldn't it? DeathBrewer has the stovetop BIAB thread in which he shows how to get by with a smaller pair of pots, but I suppose there's something to be said for convenience, too.

In any case, I'm too broke to get new equipment for a while, so there's plenty of time to mull it over (or daydream, as the case may be).

 

[imrook]

I brew in my kitchen using a converted cooler MLT and a 10 gallon aluminum kettle on my gas range. I started brewing with 2.5 gallon batches in a Mr. Beer. After 3-4 batches, I wanted to step up to 5 gallon batches. I thought about getting a 5 gallon kettle and doing extract and partial mash, but knew I would soon want to go all-grain. I bit the bullet and got a 10 gallon kettle. I did a couple of 5 gallon extract batches before I built my MLT and IC built. I've been all-grain ever since. Ultimately, you have to make the decision that's right for you but I wanted to let you know that there are people out there brewing in their kitchen with this type of equipment.