Finished Beer Will Be Too Thick

[torilen]

I brewed my first beer on Sunday, and taking a look at the last couple of days, I can tell it is going to be really thick when it is finished fermenting. I assume now is not the time to add anything to it...wait for it to finish fermenting, right?

Will there be any problems caused by adding a bit of water to it, to thin it out? I know it will dilute the taste some, but that shouldn't be too much of a problem...it has a pretty heavy taste anyhow, to be honest. I know it will dilute the alcohol...any guess as to how much? (it is only 7 cups worth fermenting...just an experiment).

Is there any thing else I can mix into it to thin it out? Perhaps create something similar to what the brew actually is? I used molasses, honey, and lots of spices...maybe if I mixed some of that up, would that be better than simply adding water?

Last thought - what if I created something similar to the brew, and actually ferment that while I let this brew sit in a secondary for a bit? Could I mix those two afterward? Or is that just asking for trouble?

Thanks

 

[k1ngl1ves]

Patience. Quite possibly the most important aspect of homebrewing...

 

[McKnuckle]

^Yes. You have no idea what it will be like - it's your first brew. All beers look "thick" with layers of foam, haze, particles, and sediment when they are in the throes of fermentation. They frankly look disgusting. But over a period of weeks, they become still and settle, and clear up.

Since it's your first, let it ride and learn what happens by NOT messing with it. What is it, anyway? You don't mention anything about the style or recipe.

 

[TurnipGreen]

You can definately blend it with a different beer and pretty much how you said. Start an other batch and leave this one in the primary or secondary while the other finishes out. Then blend at bottling time.

A little bit of molasses and spice goes a long way. So you may want to build an pretty simple beer to blend in.

 

[JonM]

Thick? What's thick?

 

[RM-MN]

Thick? What's thick?

That's the roggenbier I made with 60% rye. I nearly had to force it into the bottles. In time it thinned out and got really good (if you like a lot of rye flavor).

 

[torilen]

It is a recipe I made, a gingerbread beer. I used oats for the grain, and the initial liquid came out white and watery-pasty, almost like what you would see in a watered down paste/glue for a kindergarten class. This was 4 cups of liquid. I added 3 cups of water to this, then started adding the spices and such while it cooked.

Here is the thread where I discuss this beer:https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=574947

To answer the question, what is thick. Imagine a thin gravy for a steak or chop or something like that. Maybe that's not too thick. As has been pointed out, this is my first real beer (I've done a few ginger beers and a wine, but those, by nature, are not thick).

Well, I'll let it ride for now. I certainly don't plan on doing anything rash - not throwing it out or destroying it by going crazy and adding all sorts of stuff at the end.

Let me ask this, when it is done fermenting, should I bottle or rack to a secondary? What would be better to allow it to settle?

 

[bransona]

Alright...that's not beer. Beer=hops+yeast+water...AND BARLEY! Those oats aren't malted. You have no diastetic power, and thus, unfermentable oat sugars. You're making sugar wine with hops...or something. I bet it is thick. I hope it turns out, but this isn't beer.

 

[BlueHouseBrewhaus]

+1 ^ What you made is a really thin, hoppy oatmeal. With nothing to convert the starches, I'm not sure what it will be but I applaud your initiative. Before your next brew, get a good brewing book (Joy of Homebrewing or such) and poke around this forum A LOT. Check out the recipe section and find a good basic recipe. I would suggest starting with extract plus steeping grains. If you want to go straight to all grain, you might want to check out Brew in a Bag (BIAB). It's an easy way to get into all grain with a minimal investment.

Brewing isn't rocket science but it does take a little study to understand the process and methods. Then you can be as geeky or laid back as you want to be. Enjoy the obsession!

 

[JonM]

The cup of sugar, and the 5 spoons of honey and molasses are the only fermentable things there. Just a quick run through a recipe calculator gets a hair above 1% ABV.

The rest of the brew's contents is "other."

 

[mongoose33]

I'm a new brewer--five batches in. I've made mistakes, learned a ton, and now I have a context in which to understand at least some of what brewing is about.

If I were to give any advice to a first time brewer, having just gone through it myself, it would be this: choose a ready-made kit with clear instructions, and brew that as your first beer. In this way, you have no worries about the ingredients, as they're already chosen for you, and can focus on the process. Read the instructions carefully, read them again, organize everything, and enjoy doing it for the first time.

The more variables you play with, the more things that can "go wrong," and the harder it can be to isolate what's wrong.

Despite the advice above, I *still* made mistakes. I misread the instructions, or more properly, misremembered them. Still the beer turned out ok--not exactly what the recipe called for, but good nonetheless.

If one decides to invent their own recipe, uses processes that are unconventional, and so on, then how does one troubleshoot?

I brewed three extract batches, then went to all-grain. But I'm sure glad I had the experience of those three batches under my belt, because then I could focus on what I was putting into the brew kettle, not on what happened from that point onward.

My 2 cents.

 

[Gavin C]

It is a recipe I made, a gingerbread beer. I used oats for the grain, and the initial liquid came out white and watery-pasty, almost like what you would see in a watered down paste/glue for a kindergarten class. This was 4 cups of liquid. I added 3 cups of water to this, then started adding the spices and such while it cooked.

Here is the thread where I discuss this beer:https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=574947

To answer the question, what is thick. Imagine a thin gravy for a steak or chop or something like that. Maybe that's not too thick. As has been pointed out, this is my first real beer (I've done a few ginger beers and a wine, but those, by nature, are not thick).

Well, I'll let it ride for now. I certainly don't plan on doing anything rash - not throwing it out or destroying it by going crazy and adding all sorts of stuff at the end.

Let me ask this, when it is done fermenting, should I bottle or rack to a secondary? What would be better to allow it to settle?

If the oats were anything other than malted oats you have a batch of thin oatmeal in your fermentor. Easy solution.

• Step 1. No worries
• Step 2. Dump batch
• Step 3. Plan next great batch of beer
• Step 4. Regale folks with tell of your hilarious first attempt at beer while scarfing down pints of delicious homebrew from batch 2.

Good story man. Best of luck with your brewing.

 

[Revvy]

If you are looking for something like a Gingerbread beer, may I suggest you do something like an actual beer spiced with those flavors. A brown ale is one of the best beers to spice that way in my opinion.

I did a gingersnap brown ale where I actually used gingersnap cookies in the mash tun, and more ginger in the boil and at priming. I have a thread on it here. It was darn good.

Unfortunately I don't have it on my work computer, but I have an even BETTER brown ale recipe that I think would work for a Lebkuchen spiced beer.

I would just take that recipe, which I can post tonight, and add nearly everything you added to what you tried to make, except the oats, the cup of sugar and the orange juice (orange juice is not advisable to to try to ferment, it usually turns nasty, that's why we use peels/zest instead) and I would leave out the honey, and bump up the molasses to at least a quarter if not a half cup (depending on how much you like molasses.)

And Add,
1/2 teaspoon ground cinnamon
1/8 teaspoon ground clove
1/4 teaspoon ground allspice, ground ginger, and ground nutmeg
1/2 teaspoon almond extract and hazelnut extract
zest of 1 lemon and 1 orange
1/4 to half cup blackstap molasses

And also skip the bread yeast (if that's what you used to ferment it)

It's a tasty 6.5% beer a little higher with the molasses addition, that I think the spices would blend nicely with. In fact I might consider doing this next year for a christmas beer.

We can even scale it to a gallon if you want, and I can prolly throw together an extract version if you're not setup for all grain brewing.

But as to what you made now I don't think you have much hope, I did something similar in our experimental brew a beer with stuff only from a grocery store thread, and as I posted here and here was a disaster. When you don't have conversion and have a lot of dense proteins like you do from the oats, you're not going to have something all that pleasant to drink. Especially with nearly nothing to ferment in there.

Historical and experimental recipes are fun, but if you don't have a basic understanding of what you're doing, and in this case things like malt conversion, and even basic beer brewing, then they rarely work.

 

[torilen]

As for this not being beer - I know the powers that be say without barley it is not beer - I paraphrase numerous people (even on this site) who say that they made "beer" long before they used malted barley for the grain.

I get the point, though, and I already have plans to buy some barley for my next attempt - at least enough to hit that 25% malted barley that beer is supposed to have. One reason I wanted to try this (and want to try to perfect it) is because oats are nice and cheap, and I like the flavor of oat in beer.

As for the oats not adding anything - I did a lot of reading and studying before attempting this. From what I have found, your typical ready-to-cook-for-breakfast oats are already processed and the sugars are easy to get at than just normal, non-processed oats (like steel-cut oats). One does not need to do a cereal mash before using normal breakfast oats (or flaked oats) in a mash.

Whether I cooked them enough could be debated, yes. But as I stated, I started them in the cold water, and it took a while for the water to get up to a boil...lots of time for the starches to heat and convert. (Of course, starting them in the cold water added to my thickness problem...but oh well).

I after reading the comments, I ran through a calculator myself. I came up with an ABV of roughly 3.3%, but it didn't give me the option of adding in the orange juice, which is also fermentable. I should hit at least 4%, I would think, which is respectable for "beer". Remember, this is not even a full gallon batch - this is 7 cups worth of drink.

I appreciate all the comments, though - and I will take them all into account. As long as this is even half drinkable, I plan to try it again, and I will make changes as necessary to improve the drink and my techniques.

 

[torilen]

Revvy - Thanks. I'll take a look at your brown ale recipe.

 

[JonM]

For a beginner, try malt extract syrup or powder. That way, someone has gone through the trouble of extracting fermentable sugars from the malted barley for you. It simplifies the process tremendously, which is a good thing for beginners. That's how most of us (including me) started.

 

[Revvy]

As for the oats not adding anything - I did a lot of reading and studying before attempting this. From what I have found, your typical ready-to-cook-for-breakfast oats are already processed and the sugars are easy to get at than just normal, non-processed oats (like steel-cut oats). One does not need to do a cereal mash before using normal breakfast oats (or flaked oats) in a mash.

It sounds like you have bits an pieces from your reading, but you don't have yet the experience to understand it in context.

Like for example it's not so much that the oats don't/won't contribute to a beer (any beer) oats are great in beer, I could even add them to that brown ale I mentioned if you wanted the nuttiness it's just that how YOU'RE insisting on using them that really won't, even pre-gelatinized, you really can't use them by themselves and expect them to give you something drinkable.

Same with unmalted barely....even flaked (pre-cooked) alone isn't enough.

The context comes with brewing experience. I suggest people starting out NOT experiement on their first batches... make some good beer, understand what the process is, THEN when you know the basics start messing around.

 

[JonM]

I'm pretty sure oats only contribute fermentable sugars if they're mashed with something that has extra diastatic enzymes to make it convert.

Barley and oats are seeds. If they were going to grow into plants, they would convert their starches to sugars. We as Brewers trick the seeds into thinking its time to grow into plants so they convert their starches into sugars. Malting, however, is step one in that process. Unmalted oats can't convert unless another grain contributes the necessary enzymes. Adding oats on their own Won't do anything except give up starches. Your recipe calculator probably assumed there would be something to convert the oats, which is where your 3.3% estimate came from. Because it didn't convert, your sugar honey and molasses is it, and you'll max out around 1.3% ABV.

Try malt extract next time.

 

[Revvy]

I written a lot on what experimentation is or isn't, and how brewers need to understand the basics before they start throwing things against the wall hoping they'll stick.

Actually this whole tread on experimentation is worth reading.

 

[mongoose33]

I written a lot on what experimentation is or isn't, and how brewers need to understand the basics before they start throwing things against the wall hoping they'll stick.

Given the thickness of that "beer," it might stick.

 

[Yooper]

As for this not being beer - I know the powers that be say without barley it is not beer - I paraphrase numerous people (even on this site) who say that they made "beer" long before they used malted barley for the grain.



As for the oats not adding anything - I did a lot of reading and studying before attempting this. From what I have found, your typical ready-to-cook-for-breakfast oats are already processed and the sugars are easy to get at than just normal, non-processed oats (like steel-cut oats). One does not need to do a cereal mash before using normal breakfast oats (or flaked oats) in a mash.

I after reading the comments, I ran through a calculator myself. I came up with an ABV of roughly 3.3%, but it didn't give me the option of adding in the orange juice, which is also fermentable. I should hit at least 4%, I would think, which is respectable for "beer". Remember, this is not even a full gallon batch - this is 7 cups worth of drink.

I appreciate all the comments, though - and I will take them all into account. As long as this is even half drinkable, I plan to try it again, and I will make changes as necessary to improve the drink and my techniques.

It's not that you need barley for beer- you need something MALTED, whether it's oats or wheat or corn or rye or barley. Without the enzymatic power of the malt, the starch in the grain won't magically turn to fermented sugars. The reason that it's so thick is that it's oatmeal water with some sugar in it (and molasses and honey are thick, as is oatmeal). Since the oat starch water is very thick, and the sugars are very thick, it of course follows that the liquid remaining would be quite thick.

As far as not doing a cereal mash, well, you didn't do ANY mash. The idea of a mash vs cooking oatmeal is that the mash with malted grains (or amylase enzyme) converts the starch in the grain into fermentable sugars. It's not the same as cooking, and eating, the oatmeal.

With 7 cups of liquid(ish), 1 cup of sugar and a few TBS of honey and molasses should get you over 4.5% ABV, since the sugars are fully fermentable and all of the sugar should ferment out. A calculator assumes that there would be some residual sugars from grains- which you do not have.

I would say that if you want this to be drinkable (and drinkable is probably the best you could hope for), perhaps it should go in the fridge before all the sugars ferment out and make it totally dry.

You can call it beer if you want, but that doesn't make it beer or anything approaching a beer. It's still going to be an alcoholic drink- maybe distantly related to sugar "wine"- but definitely not beer.

 

[Gavin C]

OP. If you are set on making an alcoholic beverage from oats here is one product that some online retailers stock.

The malted oats can self convert.

There was a thread discussing this topic some time back. I had never heard about malted oats prior to reading this. Some good links in that thread if you wanted to explore oat "beer" more.

 

[Revvy]

Here's a great discussion on Lebkuchen brown ales. I'm definitely going to do something with this idea and my double dawg brown ale grainbill for next winter.

Lebkuchen Braun Ale recipe

 

[BrotherBock]

I'm not convinced this isn't some kind of troll playing the slow game....oats and orange juice?

 

[torilen]

Right, because someone who asks questions and believes what he's read of several websites just HAS to be a troll.

Just to sooth your paranoia, I've been brewing for about 7 weeks now. I've made a few ginger beers, a hard lemonade, and a wine that have all come out pretty good. I also made a coffee wine that came out quite nice. I'm trying to learn how to make this one type of beer right now. Yes, I am pretty much making up a recipe...based on a lot other recipes I have seen. I don't really want to use a kit because I am extremely picky about the beer I drink, and I don't feel like purchasing a $30-$50+ kit to make something I won't drink. I also don't have the room for the large carboys that most kits come with - I have two 1 gallon carboys, and that's all I have room for.

Anyhow - if you don't want to read my threads and offer helpful advice, feel free not to. I appreciate what everyone has told me so far, and I have a lot of information that can help me make my next batch of beer a success.

 

[Yooper]

Right, because someone who asks questions and believes what he's read of several websites just HAS to be a troll.

Just to sooth your paranoia, I've been brewing for about 7 weeks now. I've made a few ginger beers, a hard lemonade, and a wine that have all come out pretty good. I also made a coffee wine that came out quite nice. I'm trying to learn how to make this one type of beer right now. Yes, I am pretty much making up a recipe...based on a lot other recipes I have seen. I don't really want to use a kit because I am extremely picky about the beer I drink, and I don't feel like purchasing a $30-$50+ kit to make something I won't drink. I also don't have the room for the large carboys that most kits come with - I have two 1 gallon carboys, and that's all I have room for.

Anyhow - if you don't want to read my threads and offer helpful advice, feel free not to. I appreciate what everyone has told me so far, and I have a lot of information that can help me make my next batch of beer a success.

We all love that you're eager to learn, and you are welcome here.

There are just some terminology things that we are trying to help out with, and so on. Small batch winemaking and brewing are great- and many people do that! We even have a 1 gallon brewers' thread, since it is very common.

Along with listening and trying to be helpful (and I swear we are!), there often comes some corrections so that we're all on the same page. We try to always use certain terms to describe certain procedures, and certain terms to describe certain products. Not because we love picking on noobies- not at all! But because if I talk about "brewing" an item, we're talking about beer (or something else that needs to be brewed, I suppose- like coffee), but never wine or soda since those aren't "brewed". It's not that we're picking on you, but if someone is talking about "beer", or "brewing", it's good that we are all understanding what we're talking about.

Winemaking isn't "brewing". It's winemaking. Generally, wine isn't boiled and hopped or mashed at a certain temperature like beer wort is. A meadmaker is a "mazer". It's not good or bad, those are just the names that are understood for certain techniques or products.

"Beer" is made with malted grains, usually cereal grains, or other products that are treated to be used like malted grains. I'd even say that chicha would be a "beer", even though others may cringe and disagree.

Soda is usually an unfermented product, (or very lightly fermented, to produce carbonation only) while wine is the product of fermented juice. Mead is a wine, with honey as the fermentable. And so on. Those terms aren't meant to be stringently enforced, but instead helpful in talking about certain products.

 

[max384]

Best piece of advice that I can give you is to learn to brew BEFORE you start "experimenting." What you're doing is not experimenting. It's throwing a bunch of ingredients together without any sort of base knowledge, and then hoping it will turn out good.

If you want to progress as a brewer:
1) Buy a homebrewing book
2) Read said homebrewing book
3) Start with some tried and true recipes
4) If those brews turn out good, then start experimenting.

You wouldn't believe the amount of threads we read here from guys just like yourself who try to make some glorious new recipe before they ever learn to brew.

You MUST take one step at a time. You're attempting to run before you ever mastered crawling.

 

[max384]

And I don't mean to be an a$$hole or to be discouraging. I really don't. You just need to take it one step at a time if you want to make great beer.

 

[torilen]

Gavin C - thanks for the link to that thread - just read through that. Good info there for me.

 

[Braumeise]

Guess you do not need to follow "my example" of reading, reading, reading, asking questions, more reading and NOT daring to ever attempt to brew anything....

I read a lot and asked many, many questions and wanted to make sure I am going into this endeavour with the best preparation possible... Yet, it did not safe me from many mistakes including perfectly screewing up my first two testbrerws...

both were drinkable but very light beers (1.5% and 1.0%)...

I admire your spirit of simply making up grain bills and ingredients and see where it gets you. It might be a faster way to sucess if you let the folks here help you and from my experience, this community is incredibly helpful and polite and knowledgeable...

Good Luck with your future brews!

 

[BrotherBock]

Sorry, bad joke. I'm just an a**hole looking for a cheap laugh.

 

[buMbLeB]

I'm the same kinda noob Torilen is, so I'm just piping up to say I'm glad he's doing what he's doing, and it's a lot like what I like to do. Hey, experimenting is fun!! Even if you botch a batch, the quest and process are intrinsically enjoyable, and I like to read along.

That said, dude, I totally would have caught that your oatmeal can't be fermented unless it's malted or somehow converted from starches to sugars. I think you could even chew your oatmeal and spit into your carboy and at least your saliva's amylase enzymes could start the process - isn't that chicha? I dunno, it's something.

Anyway, I'm still eager to hear how this turns out one way or the other, I've not yet been brave enough to attempt anything like a "beer", though I'm considering it. Let's see what you get!

 

[torilen]

For what it's worth - this had thinned out a lot by last night. I still might
end up throwing it out, though. It's not horrible tasting, but I ended up
getting the stomach bug from my kids, and after throwing the little taste
up several times...I just don't know if I can go through with drinking it.
hehehe

I'll let you know what I decide.

 

[Gavin C]

.

 

[McKnuckle]

Make something worth drinking. (Not just for the sake of science )