Final NEIPA pH

[Upthewazzu]

Just wondering what other folks are getting in their final beer. I tested my most recent NEIPA and the pH was 4.4. Seems about right, I think.

12oz of hops in a 5gal batch, 10oz of which were post boil. double dry-hopped.

 

[ajdelange]

Yes, that's rather typical for an ale. Can't say whether an NEIPA should be higher, lower or typical though.

 

[mabrungard]

Dry hopping has the tendency to raise beer pH, so that 4.4 isn't a ridiculous value. As AJ mentions, it is a typical value for an ale.

You may find that NEIPA is crisper at a slightly lower pH.

 

[Rainy]

I've been measuring the pH of most of the NEIPAS I've been drinking lately. I've measured pH values ranging from 4.1 to 4.7

I must say that most of these were measured with the samples still carbonated and mostly around 20 degrees Celsius. Although I didn't see much difference in pH with the degassed samples the next day.

In terms of breweries I found these extremes for some of their beers.

4.2 pH Old Nation Brewing, Equilibrium

4.7 pH Verdant, magnify

I must say that both the old nation beers, the equilibrium beers and some of the other half beers tasted a bit sour to me and I guess that's partly due to the low pH but maybe also due to the use of lactic acid, acidulated malt.

Looking at the top neipa brewers:
Trillium: pH varied from beer to beer ranging from 4.1 (launch beer) to 4.7 (galaxy cutting tiles), but most beers were between 4.3 and 4.5 (the ddh variants) and none tasted sour

Tree house: between 4.3 and 4.5, I liked the the more mineral flavour in their beers and carbonation is definitely a big part of the mouthfeel of their beers

Other Half: all around 4.3 but some tasted a bit sour to me, can't say why.

Verdant: all between 4.5 and 4.7. more rounded flavours and definitely no harshness.

Cloudwater: between 4.3 and 4.6 with the higher pH for the hopper beers.


I know my measuring techniques are flawed but I still wanted to share my experiences with you.
So in general a pH of 4.4 seems to be in the middle of what most top breweries end up with.

To further the discussion.
Does anyone know what the effect is of post-boil pH on the final pH? Is it important or does fermentation level everything off to similar pH values?

And does anyone know what could explain that at 4.3 pH some beers tasted a bit sour and some didn't? Would measuring titratable acidity bring any answers here?

 

[Rainy]

Oh and in terms of sour flavours, I guess some yeasts (SO4, wlp007?) are known for creating sour flavours under certain conditions, but do they lower the pH more than other yeasts or do they just impart a sour flavour without affecting the pH?

 

[ajdelange]

I don't know the answer to that question but I do know that it is a very good question and I do know that our perception of sourness depends not only on the pH but on the anion involved as well. In another current post I recommended going to the LHBS and buying a small amount of every acid the guy has in stock which, if he does wine too, will probably include tartaric, lactic, malic citric and phosphoric. Make solutions of all these (and of vinegar too) with pH 4 and ask family and friends to taste and put the samples in order according as to how sour they think they are. You won't find anyone saying they are all the same (unless that person has destroyed his taste buds).

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Oh and in terms of sour flavours, I guess some yeasts (SO4, wlp007?) are known for creating sour flavours under certain conditions, but do they lower the pH more than other yeasts or do they just impart a sour flavour without affecting the pH?

Oh, they're producing actual acid, mostly lactic - in fact the NCYC has database fields for the production of several different acids, see eg NCYC88 which is one of the famous strains of early brewing research and is lactic positive.

 

[Rainy]

Oh, they're producing actual acid, mostly lactic - in fact the NCYC has database fields for the production of several different acids, see eg NCYC88 which is one of the famous strains of early brewing research and is lactic positive.

Thanks for the info. Is there a list of which commercial strains correspond with the strains in the NCYC list? Or a list of commerical ale yeasts which are acid positive? It's not information that yeast labs provide to home brewers.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

No in both cases. But S-04 is the only common one that's notorious for acid production - I wonder if it was used in lactose-rich beers in the past, which amped up its lactic metabolism.