Filtering...forget crystal I want diamond!

[casualbrewer]

Ok, so I pretty much only brew lagers and I like them to be perfectly clear. Yes I get good hot break, good cold break, whirlfoc, clean fermentation, cold crash for close to a week at 32 degrees and fine with gelatin when I keg. Yes I have made good beer that is "crystal" clear but it is nowhere near commercial level. I also wholeheartedly believe that any amount of yeast left in suspension has a big impact on flavor. I bought a single filter system but it sucks honestly. I need something different. I came across the Buon Vino system for wine but I'm not sure how effective it will be for beer. What does entice me about that setup is that you pump the beer through the filters versus pushing with co2. This led me to another option which is to build my own filtration system which incorporates a self priming pump to push beer through maybe 3 separate canister filters. This is most intriguing as I wouldnt have to use a racking cane anymore. Just ferment, cold crash, and pump out/ filter my beer straight into my keg. This should pretty much delete the need to "lager" as well which is just a homebrew way to clear up a beer by long term gravity. The big guys don't let their stuff sit for months.. they filter. If any of you have came up with a perfect filtering system I would be interested. Was thinking about using a 5 micron, then a 2 micron, and finally a 0.5 micron. Any suggestions? Anyone use the Buon Vino system?

 

[Pappers_]

Cheater

I can't help you with the details of filtering, not in my wheel house. But I would suggest that long term cold-aging does more for your beer than just clarifying it. One of the great things about making hand-made beer, an advantage we have over the commercial brewers, is we can be patient if we want to be, we don't have the economic pressure of needing to move beer. It might be an interesting experiment to brew and ferment a batch, run half through your filter without lagering and lager the half and then run it through the filter.

 

[casualbrewer]

I am not totally sold on long lagering periods being necessary. Shoot I think a more prolonged D rest at higher temps would be more beneficial as the yeast can clean stuff up. I dont think the yeast are doing much of anything at 32 degrees. What I do believe is that this prolonged cold crash aids in precipitating out other undesirable flavors which gives us that crisp taste we love. I mean the only real thing the big guys do that we dont is extensively filter. I bet they turn around lagers as quick as we do ales. And whether I hate to admit it, they turn out a better product than I do which irritates me. My lagers start becoming more delicious after about a month in the keg but it almost corresponds in a linear fashion to the clarity level achieved. I really wish there were some better homebrew options for filling to a high level.

 

[IslandLizard]

I am not totally sold on long lagering periods being necessary. Shoot I think a more prolonged D rest at higher temps would be more beneficial as the yeast can clean stuff up. I dont think the yeast are doing much of anything at 32 degrees. What I do believe is that this prolonged cold crash aids in precipitating out other undesirable flavors which gives us that crisp taste we love. I mean the only real thing the big guys do that we dont is extensively filter. I bet they turn around lagers as quick as we do ales. And whether I hate to admit it, they turn out a better product than I do which irritates me. My lagers start becoming more delicious after about a month in the keg but it almost corresponds in a linear fashion to the clarity level achieved. I really wish there were some better homebrew options for filling to a high level.

I'm totally with you on the relationship of clarity vs flavor. Longer "conditioning" times at near 32F come down to dropping out more suspended material, including yeast. Lager yeasts are notoriously low flocculant, hence the long lager times needed to clear. Or using a filter.

Yesterday I finished a bottle of Saison I had filled from the last 2 quarts in the keg, then placed in the fridge. It had been in the fridge for about a week (~36F) and finally became crystal clear, leaving a nice sediment layer on the bottom. It was much clearer than it ever poured from the keg, which was always a bit hazy. I hadn't been all that thrilled about its flavor all along the way... until I had that clear glass last night. Exactly as it should have tasted, perfect and crisp!

Many claim you "can't taste clarity" and they're absolutely right, you shouldn't! But you can taste cloudiness.

 

[casualbrewer]

Exactly! I believe any haze or cloudiness will have a direct impact on taste especially if it isn't supposed to be there. Think about the possibility also.. grain to glass lagers in 2-3 weeks maybe? I can do that now but clarity and crispness is my only flaw.

Has anyone had success using a pump to filter beer? I know it can be done as it is done so on a larger scale but the homebrew level is far behind.

 

[IslandLizard]

A few weeks ago I was looking at these Hastings Filters.

Nothing really new, many SS cartridge filters are already being used in various industries, even pleated ones. It's the cleaning and sanitation where we need to pay attention. To filter out most yeast we need to go down to 1 micron, and step filters are the most useful against immediate clogging of the finer ones, such as 100 > 10 > 5 > 1 micron. Maybe even tighter.

Pro breweries use plate filters or centrifuges ($$$$) before the beer goes into bright tank.

Here's an old BYO article on filters and filtration.

 

[LBussy]

I guess I need to point out that just because flavor may improve while haze drops out does not make it a causal relationship. It could be that time is necessary for both. I've definitely had home/microbrew American Standard lagers that were as clear as the big three and had better taste; so maybe a longer lager is better than simply making it clear.

What's your reasoning for wanting to pump vs pushing with CO2? I think a pump is a good way to introduce oxidation through micro-cavitation whereas it's pretty easy to purge a keg and push with CO2 without oxidizing.

1 micron should get all the yeast out, 0.5 will start stripping some of the larger proteins. If you use a 5, 2, 0.5 I think the 0.5 will clog (based on my own experience with a 1 micron.) Since we are constrained with relatively small surface area filters, I'd look to still have relatively clear beer, then do 2, 1 absolute, 0.5 (if you are set on filtering that far.)

Just one man's idea.

ETA: Scratch the absolute part (1 absolute). I was mixing up applications. That would only be necessary if you were doing a mead/wine/cider and wanted to back-sweeten.

 

[AZCoolerBrewer]

I brewed my firt lager a month ago and have been pleasantly surprised by how clear it came out. I am bottle conditioning it now and it is definitely as clear as commercial beer. I can't discount that there may be chill haze, but the pursuit of clear beer is IMO possible and valid without filters. That said, I saw a video where a microbrewery was using filters and it was basically paper packed in a square filter chamber.

 

[casualbrewer]

I think a pump would be much easier as I have to disconnect all my co2 lines and pull my bottle out in order to do it that way as my keezer is elevated a bit. I would think a self priming pump wouldnt introduce any oxygen given you take enough care. Also, most breweries pump through filter media. If you could reduce oxygenation then you could simply pump out of your primary into the keg. Shouldn't introduce much more oxygen then basic racking should it?

 

[IslandLizard]

I think a pump would be much easier as I have to disconnect all my co2 lines and pull my bottle out in order to do it that way as my keezer is elevated a bit. I would think a self priming pump wouldnt introduce any oxygen given you take enough care. Also, most breweries pump through filter media. If you could reduce oxygenation then you could simply pump out of your primary into the keg. Shouldn't introduce much more oxygen then basic racking should it?

You're still going to need to purge your filter system with CO2 before you're pumping beer. Usually fill with Starsan first, then push the Starsan out with CO2 so you end up with a 100% closed CO2 transfer.

Can you find a way to mount the CO2 tank outside the fridge, using a longer line from the regulator to a manifold inside the fridge? You will need to find a safe place to drill an entry hole for the CO2 line, not that hard, though. Once the tank is gone, you may be able to squeeze another keg in the fridge.

 

[casualbrewer]

I thought about possibly creating a vacuum by pumping water first and then switch to the beer which should drastically limit oxygen exposure. I haven't ruled out doing it with co2 yet but the simplicity of a pump sure would be nice. I don't mind spending a bit more if it makes things more convenient... In this case filtering and racking at same time and then being able to start consuming the beer much quicker. It intrigues me to think it would work efficiently.

 

[LBussy]

The pump will not abruptly change over from one to another; be it air to beer, water to beer, CO2 to beer. The reason to purge with CO2 is because it is the only one of those things which will not negatively impact the final product. If you pump water first you will have an amount of beer which is mixed with water; it will be nearly impossible to avoid some waste (or worse, watering down your beer).

A brewery can afford to oxidize the first little bit of the beer because it can be discarded. While purging lines and priming the pump, a large brewery may waste as much beer as wel make so in this case we have special considerations compared to our larger cousins.

I've tried pumping through filters in the past. Lately I've been pushing with CO2 and I can tell you that pushing it is simpler for me. Since you will need to purge the lines anyway, a keg system will make that a whole lot easier than trying to purge the lines, then connect to a racking cane. In my opinion it's also advantageous to rack off your sediment first so that you can concentrate on a clean transfer first, then you can filter 100% of what has been transferred. Doing too many things at once often leaves you feeling as if you are rubbing your tummy and patting your head while hopping on one foot. Keep it simple and low-stress.

Finally, there is some small amount of waste per filter. You are considering three filters in-line which will triple that waste. Again for me, it's been fine to wait until the beer (or whatever) clears naturally, and then final filter it as desired. I've just never been in such a rush that I have to engineer something like you're considering. I'll just go buy a sixer of some nice micro-brew if I really need something "now." Relax, don't worry and all that.

 

[casualbrewer]

The waste isn't much of a factor as I generally put a little over 6 gallons in the fermenter so if I only keg 5 then I should be good. I already ordered a triple filter housing, now I need to order my specific filters. The pump idea still gets me though... My main concern is pressure vs volume for pumping. With co2 it's set at a certain pressure but with a pump it will just keep building pressure based on volume and restriction with no way to adjust. Thus my thought for triple filtration. That way not only one filter will take the brunt of it. I saw where people used the Buon Vino unit for beer but never saw a picture afterward..

 

[LBussy]

If you are doing canister-type filters (house filters) you will need to affix a dip-tube on the inside of each. Otherwise you will waste the equivalent of the entire canister full each time. I used a piece of 1/2" copper epoxied into the hole in the lid. Alternatively you could mount them to be used upside-down but that was less convenient for me.

I suggest whatever you do that you do a dry (wet?) run with water so you have your process down before you waste your beer.

 

[casualbrewer]

Well luckily the 3 canisters are all tied together as it is a whole house system so I can mount them in any position I wish. Was thinking about throwing some yeast in water with maybe a bit of food coloring to asses the flow of the liquid and see how well it filters. Upside down will probably be ideal for minimal loss.

 

[BBBF]

Any suggestions? Anyone use the Buon Vino system?

I have a Buon Superjet and I prefer to use a whole house filter w/ a 1 micron filter. I don't think you need the three separate filters. If you can get your beer clear with cold crashing or gelatin, you can go right to the 1 micron to polish it up.

I mostly use a vacuum pump to vacuum rack though the filter and into another carboy, but pushing it with co2 would work just as well.

 

[Pappers_]

I am not totally sold on long lagering periods being necessary.

Sounds perfect for an experiment. Brew a double batch. Filter one batch without long lagering. Filter the other batch after a month or two of lagering. Have some good judges lined up to evaluate each of the beers, use the BJCP scoresheets, only tell the judges the style, nothing more. See what the results are.

 

[SanPancho]

i'll avoid the question of whether lagering is worth it, except to say i think its very strain dependent. some need it, some dont.

aside from that, two pieces of advice.

one- since you seem to be somewhat handy, rig yourself up a horizontal lager tank. shallow depths make lagering (for clarity) much faster in these types of tanks.
two- if you filter, push with co2 or pull with vacuum, and step down filter sizes. little bit of extra work to run it twice, but seems to make the process run alot more smoothly.

 

[MizzouFermentationScience]

I've used the Buon Vino on wine in the past and I would say its comparable to the big boy pad filters we use in the winery with one major difference - it can only run a single pore size at a time. Its been awhile, but I think I only had to use polishing pads on well settled wine. Course filter pads can handle some yeast in suspension and I imagine the beer would run through coarse after a week or two settling. My set up was polishing pads in the Buon Vino into a gassed/counterpressurized 5 gal corny, then using argon to push through a sterile cartridge. If you use filter pads, there is no need for sterile pads or cartridge following polishing. 0.22 micron really only catches acetobacter which won't grow in a cold CO2 environment, the polishing pads bring wine to final clarity and I'm sure its the same for beer. The trick with filter pads is water pick up; it takes practice and diligence to get good at switching over from water (water/sanitizing solution/rinse water is run through pads to prep them commercially, kegged beer could just be run after water to wet the pads and get rid of cellulose flavor).

 

[casualbrewer]

Good information guys. I'm glad some of you have used the Buon Vino system. Only thing I didn't care for is the fact you can only use one size filter in it and then have to re filter with a smaller micron pad if clarity wasn't met with first pass. I hadn't thought about a vacuum pump yet.... That may be the best way. Would probably reduce oxidation comparatively to standard pump.

 

[casualbrewer]

And as of right now my plan is to filter through 3 different micron filters. Probably going to do a 5 micron, 2 micron, and a 0.5 micron. The first two filters I am thinking about buying the sintered stainless steel mesh filters as it would be a one time buy. That way I just have to buy one filter per batch.

 

[casualbrewer]

Back on the vacuum pump idea... What would be the best way to set it up? I guess hook the pump up to the in post of the keg then run a line from the out post of the keg to my filters in ascending order and then just stick the line in the beer? What kind of cfm rating are we looking at here?

 

[MizzouFermentationScience]

Where is the desire for vacuum pump coming from? Büchner funnels in the lab are one thing, but I've never seen filters designed for vacuum use. If oxidation is the concern, first I would say that dissolved CO2 in lager is self protecting and second that using a vacuum just moves potential oxidation from the end to the beginning. Rather than oxidizing in receiving vessel, the starting vessel will have air drawn into it- nothing sucks in chemistry, the beer is being pushed by atmosphere in a vacuum situation. Sure you can sparge with inert gas, but that is not an advantage specific to vacuum. Furthermore, filters clog. Pressure inside the filter is important to monitor, many fail once the starting pressure has risen by 1.5 bar. A magnetic drive pump delivers constant speed which allows you to watch this pressure rise as the filter clogs and lets you know if the filter is still working. Beyond my inability to figure out how to monitor pressure in a vacuum system (negative pressure gauges, but that goes back to the fact I've never seen a filter designed to work in negative pressure), your vac pump will have a max neg pressure and work only towards that goal. You never know what the initial pressure will be during filtration so you would either have a vacuum pump that is too powerful and ruins your filter or one that results in stopped flow before the filter is expended.

 

[MizzouFermentationScience]

And as of right now my plan is to filter through 3 different micron filters. Probably going to do a 5 micron, 2 micron, and a 0.5 micron. The first two filters I am thinking about buying the sintered stainless steel mesh filters as it would be a one time buy. That way I just have to buy one filter per batch.

You won't make the jump down from 2 micron to 0.5 micron. If you do, you didn't need the 2 in the first place. 1 micron polish is the only way to guarantee 0.5 will work. 0.5 is a good final pore size for your application.

 

[casualbrewer]

Another poster mentioned the vacuum pump and it seemed like a good idea. I may just have to pony up for another co2 tank dedicated to filtering.

 

[MizzouFermentationScience]

CO2 will probably be the easiest to get set up, although you still need to be careful with any cellulose filter media. The same problem occurs here as the hypothetical vacuum set up- pressure is the constant and flow rate changes. Ideally, flow rate is the constant and pressure changes which is the only measure you have of filter performance. Some guys don't watch pressure and push until something pops, but filters are compromised. That may still deliver the clarity you are looking for.