**Fermenting with honey**

[pecosvalleybrewer]

Two weeks ago I brewed the pumpkin ale recipe (split batch) from the latest zymurgy magazine. The recipe called for 2 lbs honey and 2 lbs maple syrup (10 gal). After 2 weeks in the primary fermenter activity is slow to none (have not checked gravity). I tasted it and the honey is very upfront as expected. I do not plan on drinking the beer until November or December. My question is "If I transfer the beer to secondary will the continue to ferment and drop out?

 

[tally350z]

Best to test the gravity and check where its at. Only way to know for sure if you can transfer.

 

[TheZymurgist]

Why in the world would you transfer the beer off of the yeast before taking a gravity reading? The yeast is responsible for fermentation, so why would you remove it if you don't know whether fermentation is complete?

 

[pecosvalleybrewer]

Sounds like you need more information before you can properly answer my question. I am fully aware of the function of yeast during fermentation. I am also aware gravity readings are the only sure way to know if fermentation is complete. I plan on taking a gravity reading prior to transfer. I expect the bulk of fermentation to be complete (everything but the honey). I would like to transfer the beer off of the yeast cake and sediment as I do not want it to sit for longer than 3 weeks. Because the yeast at the bottom of the fermenter is mostly dormant it is no longer contributing to fermentation anyway. So I guess my question is "will there be enough active yeast in suspension with the beer being transferred to continue to ferment the honey?" Same concept as bottle conditioning. Hope this is easier to understand.

 

[Oceantendency]

Well let's start with at what point did you actually add the honey? At Flameout? last 10 min or 30 min? If you've had the primary for 3 weeks, what's wrong with another week? Don't get scered, another week won't hurt. How do you know that the honey hasn't fermented out? I use honey additions with a bunch of my recipes, honey gets broken down pretty easily actually and taste of honey is more dependent on when you added the honey, the closer to the end you add the honey, the more of the taste sticks around. An extra few days to a cople more weeks will only allow the beer to age more fully even if it's done attenuating. However you can circle jerk with questions and contemplate things, however if you aren't taking a hydro reading, you're making us specualte since we're not there. Even if it looks like it fell out, that yeast cake is still working for you. Patience...is a biotch.. If you transfer too early, yeah you might..might get a couple of more points especially if you suck up some of the yeast cake, but why not take a reading, decide to wait another few days to a week and then go for it.

 

[Oceantendency]

excuse me if I'm blunt, it's just how I come across.

 

[TheZymurgist]

Sounds like you need more information before you can properly answer my question. I am fully aware of the function of yeast during fermentation. I am also aware gravity readings are the only sure way to know if fermentation is complete. I plan on taking a gravity reading prior to transfer. I expect the bulk of fermentation to be complete (everything but the honey). I would like to transfer the beer off of the yeast cake and sediment as I do not want it to sit for longer than 3 weeks. Because the yeast at the bottom of the fermenter is mostly dormant it is no longer contributing to fermentation anyway. So I guess my question is "will there be enough active yeast in suspension with the beer being transferred to continue to ferment the honey?" Same concept as bottle conditioning. Hope this is easier to understand.

Why the three week deadline? Also, adding honey will wake up some of the yeast that has gone dormant. To answer your question directly, it all depends on how flocculant the yeast strain is. First, I wouldn't be worried about having the beer on the yeast for more than three weeks. There is absolutely nothing wrong with it. Second, I wouldn't risk not having enough yeast to ferment the hone.

On the other hand, if you don't want the honey to ferment out completely, you could transfer it to secondary, and let whatever yeast is left do what they can, and leave some residual sweetness.

 

[TheZymurgist]

Well let's start with at what point did you actually add the honey? At Flameout? last 10 min or 30 min? If you've had the primary for 3 weeks, what's wrong with another week? Don't get scered, another week won't hurt. How do you know that the honey hasn't fermented out? I use honey additions with a bunch of my recipes, honey gets broken down pretty easily actually and taste of honey is more dependent on when you added the honey, the closer to the end you add the honey, the more of the taste sticks around. An extra few days to a cople more weeks will only allow the beer to age more fully even if it's done attenuating. However you can circle jerk with questions and contemplate things, however if you aren't taking a hydro reading, you're making us specualte since we're not there. Even if it looks like it fell out, that yeast cake is still working for you. Patience...is a biotch.. If you transfer too early, yeah you might..might get a couple of more points especially if you suck up some of the yeast cake, but why not take a reading, decide to wait another few days to a week and then go for it.

That's a good point. The next statement makes it sound like the honey wasn't added until later, but that was never stated.

Sounds like you need more information before you can properly answer my question. I am fully aware of the function of yeast during fermentation. I am also aware gravity readings are the only sure way to know if fermentation is complete. I plan on taking a gravity reading prior to transfer. I expect the bulk of fermentation to be complete (everything but the honey). I would like to transfer the beer off of the yeast cake and sediment as I do not want it to sit for longer than 3 weeks. Because the yeast at the bottom of the fermenter is mostly dormant it is no longer contributing to fermentation anyway. So I guess my question is "will there be enough active yeast in suspension with the beer being transferred to continue to ferment the honey?" Same concept as bottle conditioning. Hope this is easier to understand.

So are you adding the honey later, or did you add it during the boil? If during the boil, I can assure you it's all gone already.

 

[pecosvalleybrewer]

Thanks, I really do appreciate the response. I was a little insulted with the yeast causes fermentation answer but y'all have given me great feedback. The honey was added in the last 10 min of the boil. 5 gal fermented with saison ale yeast wlp 565 and the other 5 gallons east coast ale yeast wlp 008. I am going to gravity readings before I make a decision on transferring. I should have done this before posting. I was thinking hypothetically I suppose. I assumed it he honey had not fermented because I tastes the beer 2 days ago and all I could taste was honey. Thanks for the help. I really do appreciate it. Sorry for acting pissy in my last post.

 

[IslandLizard]

Don't be offended, but I can easily summarize 2367 previous posts on this topic: Don't transfer until you're ready to package it. A secondary is not going to make your beer better, more likely worse. So the only transfer you'd do is to your bottling bucket or a keg.
Your beer will love you for it.

 

[TheZymurgist]

Two weeks ago I brewed the pumpkin ale recipe (split batch) from the latest zymurgy magazine. The recipe called for 2 lbs honey and 2 lbs maple syrup (10 gal). After 2 weeks in the primary fermenter activity is slow to none (have not checked gravity). I tasted it and the honey is very upfront as expected. I do not plan on drinking the beer until November or December. My question is "If I transfer the beer to secondary will the continue to ferment and drop out?

Thanks, I really do appreciate the response. I was a little insulted with the yeast causes fermentation answer but y'all have given me great feedback. The honey was added in the last 10 min of the boil. 5 gal fermented with saison ale yeast wlp 565 and the other 5 gallons east coast ale yeast wlp 008. I am going to gravity readings before I make a decision on transferring. I should have done this before posting. I was thinking hypothetically I suppose. I assumed it he honey had not fermented because I tastes the beer 2 days ago and all I could taste was honey. Thanks for the help. I really do appreciate it. Sorry for acting pissy in my last post.

No worries. But do preview your posts before submitting them. Your original post only mentioned that the taste of the honey is what you expected, and nothing about fermentation of that honey. I sounded like you were asking only whether the beer would continue to ferment after transferring to secondary.

 

[pecosvalleybrewer]

Yeah, my biggest problem is needing my 6.5 gallon fermenter. I use it for primary and transfer to a 5 gallon just to free it up for my next batch.

 

[pecosvalleybrewer]

I see. What I meant was I expected the honey to still be there because I knew it would take longer to ferment. I have no experience with honey. Can the beer still have a strong taste of honey even after the honey ferments? If so, how much will aging fix this?

 

[pecosvalleybrewer]

Just read my original post. My original question pertained to the honey continuing to ferment. I accidentally left honey out of the original question. Whoops... Sorry.

 

[TheZymurgist]

I see. What I meant was I expected the honey to still be there because I knew it would take longer to ferment. I have no experience with honey. Can the beer still have a strong taste of honey even after the honey ferments? If so, how much will aging fix this?

The flavor may fade with time, but I'm not familiar with that recipe. I made an IPA with honey a couple times (1 lb in a 5 gallon batch, then bottled with a cup) and I can say the honey absolutely killed the hop flavor. I was stunned. It tasted like drinking honey, and I used 12 ounces of hops, 6 of which were added at secondary.

The only thing that makes sense to me is 1) don't transfer until fermentation is complete, and 2) keep trying it until the honey flavor begins to fade. You may end up liking it in a month, or six, or never. Just have to see.

 

[TheZymurgist]

By the way, since honey is made up purely of simple sugars, the yeast will consume it first (for the most part) then move on to the other, more complex, sugars you created in the wort.

 

[pecosvalleybrewer]

Wow. Ok. I love the taste of honey but I do not want a honey bomb of a beer. Hope it drops out in time. Thanks again.

 

[Oceantendency]

The closer to the end of the boil, the more of that honey taste will remain, yes it subdues somewhat, but the body and mouthfeel of honey stays for a long time. Next time add the honey at 15-20 min before flameout instead of 10. You added a total of 4 lbs of sweetness to the beer and close to the end of boil, so most of that will remain in the beer. It should age out a lil bit after a few months, you could also dry hop some loose hops for a week to change it up a bit too, that would offset some of the overpowering honey taste, if it bothers you that much or just let ride and condition.