Fermentation by-products

[RyanDe680]

In a recent beer competition, I submitted a Porter, than scored in the mid 30s, which I am happy about.

The judges did note some fermentation by-products however.

My thought process is that this could be cleared up by a longer fermentation, correct? I had a 14 day primary fermentation with a 28 day secondary.

Would a 21 day primary fermentation and 28 day secondary help clean this up?

 

[android]

can you give us more details on how it was aerated, what yeast was used, whether a starter (stir plate or not) was used, etc. I think concentrating on those factors rather than extending the length of primary will help reduce the by products of a non-ideal fermentation.

 

[NordeastBrewer77]

most fermentation by products will be produced during a too warm fermentation or come from an under pitch. the first thing i'd check on is your pitching rates and fermentation temps. BTW, congrats on the score! i'd be proud to score in the mid 30's!

 

[weirdboy]

I agree with Nordeast...focus on pitching adequate amounts of healthy yeast, and especially in the earlier stages maybe a bit cooler, warming up near the end, and this should help more than worrying about length of primary/secondary when you're already letting it sit there for two weeks.

 

[wonderbread23]

Depends on the fermentation by-products. Are we talking esthers, hot alcohols, phenolics, diacetyl, acetaldehyde ...

There are lots of different by-products and lots of different causes.

 

[RyanDe680]

can you give us more details on how it was aerated, what yeast was used, whether a starter (stir plate or not) was used, etc. I think concentrating on those factors rather than extending the length of primary will help reduce the by products of a non-ideal fermentation.

Sure...

I aerate by hand and a little shake-shake...

I did NOT use a starter for this. I do on most beer I make, however this one I did not make one (no good reason really).

 

[RyanDe680]

most fermentation by products will be produced during a too warm fermentation or come from an under pitch. the first thing i'd check on is your pitching rates and fermentation temps. BTW, congrats on the score! i'd be proud to score in the mid 30's!

Thank you.

I used Wyeast 1728 scottish ale yeast. This was fermented at 67-68 degrees, within the range of 55-75 as per Wyeast.

Thank you for the suggestions. I agree that the 30s are a great place to be, but I want to (and believe I can) take this recipe into the 40s... Hopefully that is.

 

[NordeastBrewer77]

Thank you.

I used Wyeast 1728 scottish ale yeast. This was fermented at 67-68 degrees, within the range of 55-75 as per Wyeast.

Thank you for the suggestions. I agree that the 30s are a great place to be, but I want to (and believe I can) take this recipe into the 40s... Hopefully that is.

i've used that yeast in a few scottish ales, and have noticed that it kicks some undesirable flavors even at 68. i really like that strain when i ferment it below 65 (i do most ales at ~62 or so, at least at the beginning of fermentation.). i've found with the more finicky strains from across the pond, that starting them out cool and letting temps slowly rise ~5-7 degrees during fermentation gives me good results. nice ester production, with no detectable diacetyl, fusels or phenols. i'd say with that yeast, start nice n cool (60-63) and let the fermentation slowly guide you to 68 or so by the end, hold it there for a few days or more after all signs of fermentation are complete. i do that with almost all british strains and have very good results doing so.

 

[brian2can]

I used to do 1-2-3. 1 week Primary, 2 weeks Secondary, bottle and wait 3 weeks.

Now I do 3 to 4 weeks Primary, Bottle and wait 3 more weeks to condition in bottle.

It has made a big difference in clarity and taste. I think the longer the beer sits in the primary it gives ample time for the yeast to clean up.

 

[RyanDe680]

i've used that yeast in a few scottish ales, and have noticed that it kicks some undesirable flavors even at 68. i really like that strain when i ferment it below 65 (i do most ales at ~62 or so, at least at the beginning of fermentation.). i've found with the more finicky strains from across the pond, that starting them out cool and letting temps slowly rise ~5-7 degrees during fermentation gives me good results. nice ester production, with no detectable diacetyl, fusels or phenols. i'd say with that yeast, start nice n cool (60-63) and let the fermentation slowly guide you to 68 or so by the end, hold it there for a few days or more after all signs of fermentation are complete. i do that with almost all british strains and have very good results doing so.

Thank you for the advice. On the next batch, I'll prep a starter and then also ferment 5 degrees lower than I was last time.

Just out of curiosity how long did you leave it in primary?

I used to do 1-2-3. 1 week Primary, 2 weeks Secondary, bottle and wait 3 weeks.

Now I do 3 to 4 weeks Primary, Bottle and wait 3 more weeks to condition in bottle.

It has made a big difference in clarity and taste. I think the longer the beer sits in the primary it gives ample time for the yeast to clean up.

Do you do this for light and dark beers the same?

 

[NordeastBrewer77]

Thank you for the advice. On the next batch, I'll prep a starter and then also ferment 5 degrees lower than I was last time.

Just out of curiosity how long did you leave it in primary?

it really depends on the brew, but generally speaking, about three weeks then onto bottles or kegs. if i'm planning on a post fermentation addition (dry hops, oak, etc.) then i go 2 weeks in primary, 1 week in secondary. if i'm bulk aging a brew, i go with a longer primary, maybe 4-6 weeks, then onto secondary for the bulk aging.
a bit of advice on getting a nice, clean ferment out of english strains is to start it off cool, then let the fermentation slowly warm up so its 5 or so degrees warmer at the end. i've found this to be a great way to not only limit the off flavors produced, but the warm finish allows the yeast to stay active a bit longer and clean up if need be. i made a very nice 70/- with Wyeast Scottish Ale doing just this, according to how fast that batch was drunk, i'd say it was one of my better brews.

 

[brian2can]

I do it for all. 3 weeks in 1 container, less likely of contamination because I am doing 1 less transfer. If I needed the Primary fermenter then yes I would go to a secondary.

 

[RyanDe680]

it really depends on the brew, but generally speaking, about three weeks then onto bottles or kegs. if i'm planning on a post fermentation addition (dry hops, oak, etc.) then i go 2 weeks in primary, 1 week in secondary. if i'm bulk aging a brew, i go with a longer primary, maybe 4-6 weeks, then onto secondary for the bulk aging.
a bit of advice on getting a nice, clean ferment out of english strains is to start it off cool, then let the fermentation slowly warm up so its 5 or so degrees warmer at the end. i've found this to be a great way to not only limit the off flavors produced, but the warm finish allows the yeast to stay active a bit longer and clean up if need be. i made a very nice 70/- with Wyeast Scottish Ale doing just this, according to how fast that batch was drunk, i'd say it was one of my better brews.

I do it for all. 3 weeks in 1 container, less likely of contamination because I am doing 1 less transfer. If I needed the Primary fermenter then yes I would go to a secondary.

Thank you both, some good advice that I will try.