Feedback on my first RIS

[eval]

I'm planning on brewing my first RIS pretty soon and would greatly appreciate any feedback on the recipe. Since I love Stone Imperial Russian Stout I used the BYO clone recipe as a base and did some smaller changes.

Do you think this will make a good stout or would you change anything? Is there a reasonable amount of roasted malt in this recipe (amber, black and roasted barley)?

Recipe: RIS
Style: Imperial Stout
TYPE: All Grain

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 26,86 l
Post Boil Volume: 22,36 l
Batch Size (fermenter): 20,00 l (approx 5.25 gallons)  
Bottling Volume: 18,50 l
Estimated OG: 1,099 SG
Estimated FG: 1,021 SG
Estimated ABV: 10,3 %
Estimated Color: 148,1 EBC
Estimated IBU: 82,1 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 68,00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 73,1 %
Mash Temperature: 66,6 C (152 F)
Mash Time: 90 Minutes
Boil Time: 90 Minutes
Yeast Starter: Starter according to pitching calculators (probably around 3 l)

Ingredients:
------------
Amt                   Name                                     Type          #        %/IBU         
7,20 kg (15.8 lbs)    Pale Malt (Weyermann) (6,5 EBC)          Grain         1        76,8 %        
0,80 kg (1.76 lbs)    Amber Malt (43,3 EBC)                    Grain         2        8,5 %         
0,57 kg (1.25 lbs)    Black Malt (Thomas Fawcett) (1300,2 EBC) Grain         3        6,1 %         
0,57 kg (1.25 lbs)    Roasted Barley (Thomas Fawcett) (1199,7  Grain         4        6,1 %         
0,23 kg (8.1 oz)      Caramunich III (Weyermann) (139,9 EBC)   Grain         5        2,5 %         
42,00 g (1.48 oz)     Warrior [16,00 %] - First Wort 90,0 min  Hop           6        71,7 IBUs     
42,00 g (1.48 oz)     Challenger [7,50 %] - Boil 10,0 min      Hop           9        10,4 IBUs     
1,0 pkg               London Ale Yeast (Wyeast Labs #1028) [12 Yeast         10       -

 

[JordanKnudson]

I'd be concerned that there might be too much roasted malt in there. You've got just over 3 lbs of them total, and another 1.76 lbs of amber malt, for a 5.25gal boil. Don't get me wrong, I love all of these, but I subscribe to John Palmer's (and others') idea that when you "imperialize" something, you increase base malt while leaving specialty malts at more or less the same quantities (rather than scaling up to maintain percentage). You really won't lose out on the flavor, I promise!

 

[JordanKnudson]

I figured more people would have weighed in on this, but since they haven't, I'll post again to say that there are several things that you are doing in this recipe that I really like (since my first comment was suggesting a change).

-I LOVE first wort hopping, and I think an RIS is a great platform for it.
-I also like that you've foregone crystal malts. Sometimes I think we just throw them in because we think we're supposed to. I really enjoy taking any of my repeating brews that use crystal malt for the base recipe and swapping it out once in awhile for something like amber malt, which is less sweet and more toasty.
-Definitely good that you're making a starter (duh). Big beer, big starter. Beer math!
-I like your mash temperature. This will make a good body for an RIS, not too thick and milkshake-y but not thin, either. Why the 90 minute mash? Just to ensure full conversion? You could probably do an iodine test at 60 minutes and see if you can end the mash then.

 

[GlenF]

Between your mash temp, and London Ale yeast (attenuation est.), I think a large amount of roast will be fine. Although, why not scale back and make it easier on yourself and do .5kg of each black patent and roast barley? I'd put amber malt at 1kg or .75kg and the CaraMunich III at .25kg for simplicity of weighing, also.

But it really depends on what you want. Do you like a milder, fruitier RIS (black currant, figs, toffee) or a roastier RIS (coffee, dark chocolate, smoke)?

 

[eval]

I figured more people would have weighed in on this, but since they haven't, I'll post again to say that there are several things that you are doing in this recipe that I really like (since my first comment was suggesting a change).

-I LOVE first wort hopping, and I think an RIS is a great platform for it.
-I also like that you've foregone crystal malts. Sometimes I think we just throw them in because we think we're supposed to. I really enjoy taking any of my repeating brews that use crystal malt for the base recipe and swapping it out once in awhile for something like amber malt, which is less sweet and more toasty.
-Definitely good that you're making a starter (duh). Big beer, big starter. Beer math!
-I like your mash temperature. This will make a good body for an RIS, not too thick and milkshake-y but not thin, either. Why the 90 minute mash? Just to ensure full conversion? You could probably do an iodine test at 60 minutes and see if you can end the mash then.

Thanks for you feedback! I did what you said in your previous post and cut back a little bit on the roasted malts. I also realized I forgot to order Black Malt and had to sub that with Weyermann Carafa I Special which is a chocolate malt with slightly lower EBC. I will post the revised recipe in a separate post in this thread. Please have a look at it and tell me what you think.

The reason for the 90 min mash was only that I thought that a mash that will probably end up pretty thick might need some extra time. Im using a 34qt Coleman Extreme cooler as a mash tun. I guess I could do an iodine test at 60-70 minutes and start the vourlauf if I have conversion.

 

[eval]

Between your mash temp, and London Ale yeast (attenuation est.), I think a large amount of roast will be fine. Although, why not scale back and make it easier on yourself and do .5kg of each black patent and roast barley? I'd put amber malt at 1kg or .75kg and the CaraMunich III at .25kg for simplicity of weighing, also.

But it really depends on what you want. Do you like a milder, fruitier RIS (black currant, figs, toffee) or a roastier RIS (coffee, dark chocolate, smoke)?

Thanks! I did cut back on the roasted malts slightly, but I guess the percentage is still quite high in relation to other RIS recipes I have seen. I do prefer roasty over fruity for a RIS. Please have a look at the revised recipe I will post in a separate post.

 

[eval]

Revised version below. I realized I did not have any black malt at home and had to sub that with Carafa I, which is a chocolate malt from Weyermann with slightly lower EBC:

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 26,86 l
Post Boil Volume: 22,36 l
Batch Size (fermenter): 20,00 l   (approx 5.25 gallons)  
Bottling Volume: 18,50 l
Estimated OG: 1,099 SG
Estimated Color: 120,5 EBC
Estimated IBU: 82,1 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 68,00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 73,1 %
Mash Temperature: 66,6 C (152 F)
Mash Time: 90 Minutes
Boil Time: 90 Minutes
Yeast Starter: Starter according to pitching calculators (probably around 3 l)


Ingredients:
------------
Amt                   Name                                     Type          #        %/IBU         
7,50 kg (16.5 lbs)    Pale Malt (Weyermann) (6,5 EBC)          Grain         1        80,5 %        
0,68 kg (1.5 lbs)     Amber Malt (100,0 EBC)                   Grain         2        7,3 %         
0,57 kg (1.25 lbs)    Roasted Barley (Thomas Fawcett) (1199,7  Grain         3        6,1 %         
0,34 kg (12 oz)       Carafa Special I (Weyermann) (900,0 EBC) Grain         4        3,6 %         
0,23 kg (8.1 oz)      Caramunich III (Weyermann) (139,9 EBC)   Grain         5        2,5 %         
42,00 g (1.48 oz)     Warrior [16,00 %] - First Wort 90,0 min  Hop           6        71,7 IBUs     
42,00 g (1.48 oz)     Challenger [7,50 %] - Boil 10,0 min      Hop           9        10,4 IBUs     
1,0 pkg               London Ale Yeast (Wyeast Labs #1028) [12 Yeast         10       -

Do you think this looks better?

 

[GlenF]

I think it looks nice and would be a good platform for variations (coffee, vanilla, chocolate, etc.)

 

[JordanKnudson]

I think this recipe is going to be fantastic! Definitely try it as is before adding extras like chocolate/coffee/etc, but I agree with Glen, it could certainly support additional flavors (however, I think it won't need them in order to come out great).

 

[eval]

Thanks guys! I really appreciate your feedback.

I was actually going to try to add a little bit of espresso to a couple of bottles during bottling. Most of them will be bottled plain though.

I will try to remeber to report back how it turns out It will probably be a couple of weeks until I am able to brew.