F Dry Hopping!!!!!

[cheezydemon]

Who has the cojones to wet hop??? That is, brew with freshly picked homegrown hops this fall?

I sure as hell will have a harvest ale going.

I am understanding, but a little disapointed in the "I can't test homegrown hops, so I will just aroma or dry hop with them" mentality that seems to be prevalent here.

When did this become such an exact science? When did the sense of experimentation get squashed?

Again, no disrespect to those who are so meticulous, but I kinda wonder what the point is if you limit the use of homegrown hops so much.

Speak up!

 

[Soulive]

You can obviously do whatever you want with your hops, but from my experience its not ideal to try bittering with them. Not only does AA% change from plant to plant, but it also changes from season to season (especially early on). I found using wet hops to be wasteful and result in some grassiness. Again though, its your beer and your hops...

 

[the_bird]

Well, to play Devil's Advocate...

Isn't it kind of cool, if you're going to go to all the trouble of growing hops, to at least be able to taste or smell them in the finished product? If you use them for bittering... well, you could have used anything. You might not be able to tell the difference between a store-bought Cascade and one you grew in the backyard, but if you use it for flavor/aroma, at least you're TASTING the fruits of your labors, right?

 

[PseudoChef]

Not to mention the 6:1 wet:dry ratio you need to use. I'd rather use 6 oz of hops in dry hopping rather than as a bittering addition.

Plus, homegrown hops aren't cultivated to have high AA%. You can generally expect your homegrown Cascade hops to be 1-2 AA% lower than anything commercially available.

 

[mot]

i will be doing a harvest ale to...I was listening to a podcast with the guy from fresh hops..when you do do it make sure to use A LOT of hops because being they are not dried you have to use a crazy amount

 

[cheezydemon]

I hear you Bird, but I am talking homegrown, from bittering to dry hopping. And a grassy flavor if fresh may be OK. Fresh is almost universally better when talking ingredients.

I am growing some magnum. If they are 10-11%, that is probably a good thing!

Yes I will use some wet.

Pseudochef....am I missing something? The ratio is due to water content. It is not like using 6 oz of dried hops.

Good info Mot. I wonder if a longer boil might make up more of thedifference, rather than tons and tons of hops.

 

[Evan!]

+1 on what teh br1d says. It's not so much that I'm concerned about knowing the exact IBU's---I'm concerned about using my very limited hop harvest wisely---which means, IMO, using them for flavor & aroma additions. You wouldn't use truffle oil to fry stuff in, but you would drizzle it over a salad. You wouldn't use rare sea salt to salt up a stew, but you would sprinkle it on some potatoes at the end. The difference here is that you can get IBU's from any hop, but the flavor and aroma are where you're really going to see a difference.

 

[the_bird]

IIRC, you've got to use 4x-5x the weight of dry hops when using them wet (since drying them removed about 80% of their weight). So, if you'd add one ounce of hops at five minutes, you'd add four or five ounces of wet hops.

 

[PseudoChef]

Pseudochef....am I missing something? The ratio is due to water content. It is not like using 6 oz of dried hops.

Exactly as the bird says. You need to use 6 times the amount (per Vinnie Cilurzo, Russian River) if using wet hops as opposed to dry hops. So, if you normally have a 1 oz bittering addition, you need to use 6oz wet hops.

EDIT: I see what you're saying. Even if using them for late additions/dry hopping, you need to use more. Durr!

 

[McKBrew]

I'm not big on exact IBU's for homegrown hops. I probably won't get a decent first year harvest, but I plan on using them for bittering and aroma.

 

[Rhoobarb]

I've wet hopped with fresh Cascade hops during the last five mins. of the boil and flamout for aroma for an IPA I did last fall. Brewed in the backyard that day and literally picked them off the vine during the boil. The beer turned out great!

But what's been said by others is true. You have to use a lot more hops when wet. I'd rather dry mine and use them in lesser amounts. But if you're going to have a gangbuster crop, then hey - go for it!

 

[Beerthoven]

If I grow any hops this year I think I'll do what Cheezydemon suggests and make an all fresh-hop beer.

I'll never be self-sufficient when it comes to hops, so I might as well have a little fun with them. Besides, I'm intrigued by the idea of an all fresh-hop ale. I'd like to try it at least one time.

I'm thinking something really simple, like 95% Maris Otter, 5% Crystal 40, and as many fresh Goldings as I can grow.

I will probably dry them out first before dry hopping with them, just for sanitation purposes. But I don't have any problem using my fresh-hops for bittering, at least once.

 

[NWernBrewer]

I will be growing hops this year and plan on having some fun with the first (small) harvest. And being a fan of the Deschutes Hop Trip - a wet/fresh hop pale ale would be perfect. Even if it is wasteful, I think that I would find that batch very rewarding.

 

[david_42]

HopMadness Fresh hop brewing at it's best. Cut the bine, truck it to the camp site & brew. I used some wet hops in a randall three years ago, that didn't work very well.

The amount of hops really isn't different. Wet hops weight about 8 times as much as dry, so a pound wet is only two ounces dried.

 

[BierMuncher]

I gotta go buy some rhizomes....

 

[Melana]

If we have any crop this year we are going to use them in a beer... Why wouldn't we? After all that's what we grow them for! I can't wait.

 

[Big "A"]

I definitely plan on using mine for both bittering and Flavor, Aroma, and dry hopping.
I bought what I could get for my staple beers. and then others I thought I could put to use. I have been wanting to do some gardening and now I have a really good reason!!!

Luplin filled dreams

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

I personally don't believe the naysayers regarding homegrown hop AA content. I mean, why shouldn't my homegrown hops have all the Alpha potential as the commercial. I have a much, much smaller plot to maintain thus utilizing much, much less fertilizer. Additionally, because my plot is smaller I can justify more organic means of fertilization and reap the full benifit.

Furthermore, even with the 13 plants I'll have this year they will be cared for in a much more personal manner than would even an acre plot of hops. If anything, I suspect that homegrown has the potential to supercede commercial grown in the Alpha boxing ring.

Consider also that homegrown hops are handled much less vigorously than commercialized versions and the resins that are there are more likely to stay put rather than being lost to mechnization in processing.

As for testing, they can be tested. $45.00, and 1 Ounce sent to the USDA labs and you'll get a report as accurate as any farm would. Aside from laboratory testing a tiration method can be used and then AA can be estimated against a "known" AA.

As for me, I intend in 3 years time to use exclusively homegrown hops for all my beers. Screw all this $5.00 an ounce non-sense.

And I will be brewing harvest ales and lagers.

 

[mykayel]

I plan on using what I grow for both bittering and flavor. I thought an average harvest (second year) was 1-2 pounds per hill; I'm planing 4 varieties so I don't think I'll be able to use all of my hops. And from what I read, you should probably use LESS home grown hops than the commercially grown as your homegrown will be so much fresher and more potent.

And correct me if I'm wrong but using wet hops doesn't require more hops, just more hops by weight as most of the weight is water. i.e., if it took 10 hope cones to equal 1 oz of dried hops, then you'd just use 10 wet hope cones (no matter what it weighs).

 

[Crazytwoknobs]

I received a pretty darn huge rhizome in the mail, so I expect some harvest this year. I'll be using them at 30min and 5min-flameout for a pale in the fall.

 

[Brewsmith]

I'm still waiting for mine this year. If I have any success, I'm making a wet hop beer.

Don't let the extra weight of the wet hops scare you. Yes you need about 5x the amount of hops by weight, but that's because the extra weight is just water. You're not using more hops, just more weight. It should still come close to the same number of hops cones. Not that I've ever counted the hop cones in a bag of whole hops.

 

[Joker]

I personally don't believe the naysayers regarding homegrown hop AA content. I mean, why shouldn't my homegrown hops have all the Alpha potential as the commercial.

I agree, althougth I don't know if it is region dependant. Luckily I am in the heart of the Willamette Valley which is where a lot of the hop supply comes from, so I don't see any reason why my hops would not be very close to the advertised AA of commercial hops from the same year.

 

[fratermus]

I personally don't believe the naysayers regarding homegrown hop AA content.

I don't think the argument is that they are necessarily lower AA, but rather that the homegrower has no method to assay the %.

So it's unknown, and therefore difficult to use for bitttering.

That's my take.

 

[Kugster]

As for testing, they can be tested. $45.00, and 1 Ounce sent to the USDA labs and you'll get a report as accurate as any farm would. Aside from laboratory testing a tiration method can be used and then AA can be estimated against a "known" AA.

I agree with GilaMinumBeer...and I think if you keep good soil PH and good watering habbits I don't see why the AA% would not be up like commerche...

we'll see cause I live in AZ and going to try my hand at it this year. My soil will have to be very well maintained.

Kug
:rockin:

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

So it's unknown, and therefore difficult to use for bitttering.

That's just it.

We get waaay too hung up on the figures. Just because the package has AA10% written on it in sharpie doesn't mean that 10% has been retained through processing, packaging, shipping, and storage. It's just a guideline of where it started.

Furthermore, it's been proven that just because Garetz, Tinseth, or Daniels' algorithms calculate that you will achieve 490IBU (joke) the reality is that the actual isomerized contribution is actually a percentage less, sometimes a considerable amount less.

So in reality the numbers are just a springboard for subjective quantification and most every variety of hop has a known range of Alpha that at most spans a 7 point difference (and that usually only aplies to the very high Alpha varieties that often don't get used for late hopping).

At any rate; Chromatography wasn't invented until 1900 and it wasn't till well after that that hops were tested for A/B acid content. Brewing itself dates back to 6 BCE and the first mention of the use of a hop dates back to 1039. So , essentially for well over 8 centuries brewers were using hops wby trial and error. Thatis, absolutely no known range to work with and yet many of the styles we brew today are meant to emulate, as best as we know, those styles.

Finally, those brewers didn't have any known figures on their malts either. And again, we atleast have an idea that is within a known range.

Sono offense intended here, but to say that bittering with homegrown hops is "difficult" is laughable. I guarantee you that there isn't a brewer on these boards that has first hand knowledge of how "difficult" brewing has been.

Until you've had to totally blindly balance hop against malt (all over a wood fired kettle) you have no idea of difficult with respect to brewing.

As for the challenge HGH offers, bring it on because when I do achieve a complimentary balance I will know that the beer made will ever only be mine. Because no-one else will ever be able to duplicate it, chance are not even me.

 

[Okiebrewer]

+1. I'm def gonna use mine for bittering, flavor, and aroma. I'll just assume they are at the low end of the bittering range for that kind of hops even though they might not be. If my hops range from 4.5-7% AA for example I'll just assume they are 4.5%AA and add them accordingly. This way the worst thing that happens is I get a hoppy beer :rockin:

 

[Kugster]

As for the challenge HGH offers, bring it on because when I do achieve a complimentary balance I will know that the beer made will ever only be mine. Because no-one else will ever be able to duplicate it, chance are not even me.

Right on!!!!! I don't think you could have clearified it any better than that! That challange will be great, to achive a good balance with your own hops that YOU grew in YOUR area.

I can't wait till my hops hits the door!

Cheers!

Kug
:rockin:

 

[cheezydemon]

CHARGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Lol, thanks to all who cry "Experiment! IT is what made sex FAAAAAAANTASTIC!!!!!

Seriously, we all take ourselves too seriously sometimes!

Harvest Ale it is.

And FOR CHRIST"S SAKE *******5 OUNCES WET = 1 OUNCE DRY!!!!(or whatever)

IF YOU DRY THE FRIGGING 5 OUNCES DOWN TO ONE OUNCE, HAVE YOU SAVED ANYTHING?????? IF YOU SAID "YES" PLEASE REMOVE YOURSELF FROM THE GENE POOL!!!!*******

OR (HERE is AN INGENIUS IDEA!!!!!!!) BUY an ounce of hops at the store....REHYDRATE them!!!!! YOU WILL HAVE QUINTUPLED YOUR INVESTMENT!!!!!!(but, your subsequent beer will be bland as hell because you are using 1/5th of what you should!!!)

 

[Evets]

I only know that I made an APA with last years homegrown Nugget and homegrown Cascade that is amongst the best APAs I've ever tasted, commercial or homebrewed.
Also, I don't know why you'd brew with wet hops when it only takes a couple days at the most to dry them. Is there a supposed desirable flavor from wet hopping besides "grassy"?

 

[Dave the Brewer]

I'm assuming you can use a dehydrator to dry the hops? If that what I need to use, I think it could be done in a few hours. It takes me about 12 hours to make beef jerky. This season will be my first time to grow my own hops.

 

[CEMaine]

Well, to play Devil's Advocate...

Isn't it kind of cool, if you're going to go to all the trouble of growing hops, to at least be able to taste or smell them in the finished product? If you use them for bittering... well, you could have used anything. You might not be able to tell the difference between a store-bought Cascade and one you grew in the backyard, but if you use it for flavor/aroma, at least you're TASTING the fruits of your labors, right?

+2 to the Bird

I ALWAYS do a Fresh Hop Ale. It may not be the most efficient use but, if your hops grow like mine, there are still plenty.
The feeling of drinking your own beer with your own hops cannot be beat.

 

[cheezydemon]

I only know that I made an APA with last years homegrown Nugget and homegrown Cascade that is amongst the best APAs I've ever tasted, commercial or homebrewed.
Also, I don't know why you'd brew with wet hops when it only takes a couple days at the most to dry them. Is there a supposed desirable flavor from wet hopping besides "grassy"?

I don't know but I am sure as hell going to find out.

I love to cook, and the "fresh is better" is almost universal as far as flavor is concerned. So I will give it a whirl and let you know!

It is not the laziness of not wanting to dry them, it is the need to know hops forward backward, fresh or dried.

 

[Brewsmith]

Part of the purpose of frying hops is to store them. They will go moldy fast when wet. If you're going to use them right away, there's no point in drying them.

 

[Jester369]

Don't let the extra weight of the wet hops scare you. Yes you need about 5x the amount of hops by weight, but that's because the extra weight is just water. You're not using more hops, just more weight.

Ya know, that was my first thought. If I've got 25 hop cones, I've got a certain amount of resins and whatnot. Drying them removes the water weight, so now I have 25 really light hop cones, that should theoretically have the same amount of resins and whatnot, no? But hey - I've been wrong before!

 

[cheezydemon]

No, you are right.......5 hop cones wet = the same 5 cones when dried. No more no less.

I would actually be surprised if wet cones didn't contain more oils and aa than dried, even if by just a little bit.