Extract taste or flavor?

[ChelisHubby]

I am on my 6th extract brew. My son says he can taste the fact that it is a extract. How do I minimize this flavor and what is it. I think I now have a handle on fermentation within 2 degrees with a cooler water bath Thanks to Yooper for the picture of hers. I am trying to stay with low hopped ales and want to go to the malty irish ales soon. I am pitching double the recommended yeast now. I do full boils and 5 gallon batches in a 5 gallon carboy. I know that all grain would probably fix this but I like to keep it simple because I mess up while I am learning this processes. Thanks for your time folks.

 

[grittanomyces]

I notice a flavor (I call it butt, because I have no idea how to describe it) that I've always associated with some homebrews.

I thought for a minute that it was because of extract, but had plenty of all-grain brews with the same off flavor.

If we're talking about the sane taste, it seems to be one that usually develops a week o two after the beer is done, for some reason. Have no idea why.

 

[JordanKnudson]

I've heard people talk about the extract "twang." Maybe that is what your son is detecting. I don't really know what it is, exactly, as I never noticed anything twangy when I was doing extract batches, but it seems that people primarily complain about it when using liquid extract or old extract.

Another possibility is that extract alone gives a more one-dimensional character than grain (this is strictly my own perception of the taste). Do you use specialty grains for steeping in addition to the extract itself? That can add a bit of nuance/complexity and also give you some additional control over the flavor profile.

These are just some ideas. Maybe other folks will have more suggestions, too!

 

[ChelisHubby]

I have brewed a more beer honey pale ale 3 times a mild honey stout and a cream ale ale from more beer signature series and they are tasty to my uneducated taste my son says they have a twange to them. I live close to the riverside Morebeer and get them there. All have required steeping grains. I have steeped at 165 instead of the 170 the directions suggest. Thanks again.

 

[k1ngl1ves]

Do you do late additions, or add majority of your extract at flameout? That will fix a lot of "twang" issues.

You could just tell your son that you'll work on getting rid of the "twang" if he starts paying to drink your beer. Lol! I bet the taste will mysteriously disappear...

 

[zwiller]

Personally, I think with full wort boils an extract brewer can make many beers as good of beer as AG. I have a semi local BOP that is extract and they make some killer beers.

As judson said, the "extract twang" comes from stale canned extracts. Make sure the dates are good and fresh. I recall that DME does not go stale. I think nowadays this is quite rare... But it could happen.

Also, might be time to check out your water. Chlorine/chloramine can funk up an otherwise finely brewed beer. Excessively hard water can also do damage. At minimum activated charcoal filter is probably needed for your home water and possibly campden treatment for chloramines. I would try a batch with bottled "spring water" and see if that helps (I put my money on this fixes it). If it does, investigate into your water supply...

Typically the main reason AG beers are better than extract is because most extract brewers are not doing full wort boils...

PS -You are chilling/cooling the wort right?

 

[ChelisHubby]

Thanks I will try to use spring water and pick up Campden tablets. I am using a wort chiller and get the temp to 75 pretty quick but I can't go lower with it as ground temp is to dern high. I haven't tried the addition of the extract at flame out.

 

[BigJack]

Having brewed plenty of extract batches, freshness, IMHO, is the key to avoiding twang.

Case in point. I ordered a bunch of Maris Otter extract from Northern Brewer last year- enough for two batches of beer. I brewed a SMaSH ale the day the extract arrived- no steeping grains at all. Just extract, hops, water, and yeast. That beer came in second place in my homebrew club's annual Pale Ale competition. None of the judges said anything about extract twang. I didn't taste any either.

The rest of the extract sat in the cabinet for five months before going into a beer with steeping grains. That beer had a very noticeable twang to it.

This is, of course, anecdotal- but it is one of dozens similar of anecdotes I have over years of brewing. (I'd say 70% of my brews have been extract over the years.)

 

[JordanKnudson]

Thanks I will try to use spring water and pick up Campden tablets. I am using a wort chiller and get the temp to 75 pretty quick but I can't go lower with it as ground temp is to dern high. I haven't tried the addition of the extract at flame out.

I use spring water for all of my beers, as it's just plain easier. It's obviously an extra cost as well, but for me it is worth it, as I don't have to fight so much with the treated tap water.

With the Campden tablets, they are very useful if you are using tap water that has been treated with chloramines. I had a problem with chloramines when I first started out, and Campden tablets really helped to solve it (note that this will not be an issue at all with store-bought spring water). I doubt, however, that it is chloramines that your son is detecting. The taste wouldn't be "twangy." Chloramines create an intense plastic-like taste that pretty much overwhelms the other flavors/aromas and never ages out. It's not subtle.

Your chilling process is definitely not the problem. What you describe is a pretty standard situation, and it works fine. Plenty of people even get away with the no-chill method (I've been forced into it once or twice, and it caused no problems).

I would agree that you should make sure your extract is as fresh as possible, and try adding it at the end of the boil. Perhaps you might consider ordering the extract for your next batch from somewhere like Northern Brewer or another major supplier where their turnover is so fast that nothing has time to go stale, and see if that makes a difference.

 

[fuelish]

Have never tasted this "extract flavor/twang" that folks speak of...have made/tasted great extract beers (with adjunct grains) and tasted some great all grain....yet again, have tasted beers of each type that taste like arse....there's no accounting for the public's taste in anything

 

[zwiller]

This is, of course, anecdotal- but it is one of dozens similar of anecdotes I have over years of brewing. (I'd say 70% of my brews have been extract over the years.)

I hate to tell you this, but that's not anecdotal... That's experience! I trust my experience over a book or website all day long. You should too...

Are there freshness dates on extract?

 

[KeninMN]

From my own experience I have found that late malt extract addition to the boil, using distilled water and controlling fermentation temperature have markedly improved my extract brews. RO water has also been discussed by many, but not all RO is the same, and the quality of your RO water depends on the quality of the feed water used to make it and the efficiency and maintenance history of the RO membranes.

I use a swamp cooler setup to keep my fermentation temperature in a very narrow range during the active fermentation phase, even when the ambient temperature approaches 80 degrees F.

From what I have read, extract brew quality can by also improved by doing a full-volume boil, although I am currently only set up to do partial boils, so I have no direct experience with this.

 

[Yooper]

Thanks I will try to use spring water and pick up Campden tablets. I am using a wort chiller and get the temp to 75 pretty quick but I can't go lower with it as ground temp is to dern high. I haven't tried the addition of the extract at flame out.

You don't need campden tablets if you're using water without chlorine.

I'd use reverse osmosis water (from the big "water machines" at grocery stores and/or places like walmart), and not spring water which may or may not have added minerals. RO water, or distilled water, is perfect for extract brewing.

You definitely want to get lower than 75 degrees for pitching and fermenting. Maybe chill the wort in a water bath to 62 degrees, pitch the yeast, and then ferment it at 66-68 degrees. That will help a lot.

Adding the majority of the extract at flame out will reduce maillard reactions and avoid a "cooked extract" taste that may be much of the culprit here. Water and yeast health also play a huge part in the flavor of beer, so I'd do all three of those things.

 

[Heavywalker]

I buy in to the freshness makes a difference thought. I have never tasted the extract on a beer where I used all DME. However when using LME I can tell when the extract is not fresh and can taste it. I made a beer the other day, when I went to the LHBS to get the extract for the batch they damn near ran out of extract filling up my bucket. I can taste the extract in that beer ever though I split the additions adding half at flameout. The next batch I made they had a new barrel of extract there and I cannot taste the extract in that beer.

I think that if you use DME or really fresh LME, and add a bulk of the extract at flameout along with a good pitch rate and controlling your ferment temps then you will not notice the extract twang that people talk about.

 

[ChelisHubby]

I want to be sure I understand. Yooper says put the 75 degree carboy into the 62 degree water bath and pitch yeast after it has cooled to 62 plus or minus. That will be different as I pitched at 75 first and then cooled. Hmmm. Thanks.

 

[zwiller]

Pitch cool. Repeat after me. Always pitch cool.

Do not be afraid to let cooled (75F) wort in a sanitized carboy/bucket rest overnight to cool in a fridge/basement/swampcooler. I do it all the time in the summer.

 

[WayFrae]

Are you doing full boils or partial boils?

 

[ChelisHubby]

full boils always!