ESB Critique

[Sonja Dewhurst]

What do you guys think about this simple ESB? Is there anything you would add or change?

9lbs Maris Otter

2lb Golden Naked Oats (not flaked)

1lb Crystal 80L

1lb Special B


0.5oz East Kent Goldings at First Wort

1oz Fuggle @ 25mins

0.5oz East Kent Goldings @ 15mins


Mash at 152F with 4.5gal

Sparge with another 4.4gal


Ferment at 68F with Imperial Pub yeast.

 

[Steveruch]

I'd replace the special b with a British crystal.

 

[LittleRiver]

I just tapped an ESB I was experimenting with, in which I used 1oz Fuggles & .5oz Centennial at 60min, .5oz Fuggles at 20min, and .5oz Fuggles at 160F for 15min. I didn't have the "correct" yeast for this style (and didn't want to order any), so I used some WY1450 slurry I had on hand.

It came out nice. The "earthy" bitterness is there, without being overwhelming.

 

[lowtones84]

Looks pretty good to me, I wouldn't use the special B though. I wouldn't use that much crystal either but that's just my preference. Perhaps some invert sugar or just plain sugar to help dry it out a bit, not necessary though.

Do you know how many IBUs that's getting you?

 

[BigEd]

Naked oats are a crystal malt. Combined with the 80L and Special B that puts the recipe @ 30% crystal malt. I think that's WAY too much. The benchmark for an ESB is Fuller's and I'll go as far as 12-15% crystals in my versions but with 30% they are going to take over the beer IMO.

Agree with Steveruch that the Special B should go or at least be greatly reduced. It's a great malt but quite aggressive in flavors. If you want some of the dark toffee and dried fruit notes Special B is known for I'd suggest no more than .25 lb here. If you combine that with .75 lb of naked oats and .50 lb of 80L you'd be @ about 12% crystal overall. Replace the reduced crystal with an equal weight of the pale malt.

Your recipe does not list OG, hop AA, or IBUs. Kent Goldings and Fuggles are good choices, a higher alpha UK hop like Challenger or Target could be used for the you want a bittering substitute. The overall IBUs here should be about 75% of the OG number. So if the OG were 1.048, shoot for 36 IBUs.

 

[brewbama]

I agree with BigEd and Steve. Too much Crystal for me. My ESB = base + .5 lb light and .25 lb choc( less than 10% total crystal in grain bill). You might consider some type of sugar for your character instead of the additional crystal. The English routinely add sugars to their beers.

I also agree with the English hops. Your Fuggle and EKG are great. I like ~8 IBU each of Target, Challenger and Northdown at 60 and another 8 IBU each Target and Northdown at 10. YMMV. ...and the 75% BU/GU ratio is my go to for Bitters which is why I recommend 8 IBU increments. (I like 1.053 and 40 IBU)

I think you’re gonna like the Pub yeast!

Cheers!

 

[MaxStout]

Get rid of the Special B and crystal 80 and replace with 5-10% English caramel (150L). Also replace the naked oats with a pound or so of torrified wheat for head retention and body (it adds a little toasted flavor, too). Add 1/2 lb of invert sugar to dry it a bit.

 

[thehaze]

An ESB should be something like 2, maybe, maybe 3 malts: Maris Otter/Golden Promise + UK Crystal 70/120L ( or a combination of two caramel malts - one lighter and one darker like 120-150L ) to get a bit of colour and some caramelly notes in there. You need an English yeast: TT, Fuller's, etc. Mash low and long and use some dextrose/invert sugar, although plain sugar and honey can work.

 

[kevin58]

John Keeling, former head brewer at Fullers in London has outlined the recipe for Fullers ESB and from the notes I took listening to his interview I use the following: Pale Ale Malt 95%... Crystal 120 - 150 4%... and Black Malt 1%. For hops he listed Target (bittering at :60), Challenger, Northdown & Goldings (all at the last 5 mins). A good English ale yeast will work. I've been using Imperial Pub A09 with good results.

 

[brewbama]

John Keeling, former head brewer at Fullers in London has outlined the recipe for Fullers ESB and from the notes I took listening to his interview I use the following: Pale Ale Malt 95%... Crystal 120 - 150 4%... and Black Malt 1%. For hops he listed Target (bittering at :60), Challenger, Northdown & Goldings (all at the last 5 mins). A good English ale yeast will work. I've been using Imperial Pub A09 with good results.

Good stuff. Any mention of the hop qty at time remaining or IBU levels?

 

[BigEd]

The old Fuller's recipe, c 1981, did have a flaked maize addition. While that has probably gone away in recent years my ESB recipe was based on the old version and I still use a little flaked maize. It's not enough to intrude into the flavor and does help a tad with the attenuation. Long time HBT member Northern Brewer posted both John Keeling's first take and Fuller's recreation done in 2018 which has about 9% flaked maize.

Here's my basic version of ESB, not a Fuller's clone but heavily influenced by their brew. OG 1.056/IBU 38

10 Gallons US

18 lbs MO pale malt (85.25%)

1 lb Crystal 55L (4.75%)

2 lbs flaked maize (9.5%)

2 oz chocolate malt (.005%)

90 minute hops:

2 oz Challenger 7%

2 oz EKG 4.5%


15 minute hops:

1 oz EKG 4.5%

The Fuller's recipes are in the first page of this thread: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/...als-neipa-from-the-horses-mouth.642756/page-2

 

[Sonja Dewhurst]

Thanks for all the feedback! I'll spend a little more time researching but, there are lots of great ideas.

 

[kevin58]

Good stuff. Any mention of the hop qty at time remaining or IBU levels?

I don't have my original notes in front of me but I made a recipe in Beersmith based on them... in that, the IBU is 39.7.

If you are interested in doing a partigyle you can also make London Pride from the same grain bill and hops just like Fullers does. Make the LP about 4.5 ABV and 33 IBU

 

[Northern_Brewer]

I think a lot depends on what the OP's aim is - to try and clone Fuller's ESB, to create a typical British strong bitter, to make a USian ESB style beer (which doesn't exist in the UK) or just to make a beer they enjoy.

The answer to the question depends on which of those is the aim. But just as far as the Fuller's beer goes, then yes you should have a read of the thread in which I've posted actual Fuller's brewing logs. Current ESB is 35 IBU and 5.5% ABV in cask, 5.9% in bottle.

So if you are using a yeast with 72% attenuation, then you want an OG of about 1.060.
If your brewhouse efficiency is 75%, then an OG of 1.060 will need about 11lb of base malt.

The amount of hop additions will depend on the alpha acid content of your hops, but 2018 Goldings cones can be as high as 6.2% in which case you get 35 IBU with :
1oz 60 minutes
1oz 15 minutes
1oz 5 minutes

and you could throw some in as a dry hop if you want to be tidy with a 100g or 4 oz packet.

Naked oats are a crystal malt. Combined with the 80L and Special B that puts the recipe @ 30% crystal malt. I think that's WAY too much. The benchmark for an ESB is Fuller's and I'll go as far as 12-15% crystals in my versions but with 30% they are going to take over the beer IMO.

USians generally put waaaay too much crystal in their British recipes - that January 2018 recipe for Fuller's uses 7.2% light crystal, and for me the Fuller's beers have about as much crystal as I care for. You will find a few breweries using more, but not many - the Yorkshire breweries will be using more like 2-3% crystal. Don't forget that British pale malts are cooked a little more than elsewhere, so you're getting more contribution from the base malt.

You might consider some type of sugar for your character instead of the additional crystal. The English routinely add sugars to their beers.

That's not so much the case as it used to be in the century after the Free Mash Tun Act of 1880. If you look at what respected breweries like Fulller's and Tim Taylor are doing, they used a bit of sugar 40 years ago but no longer do so for their main beers, CAMRA has put quite a lot of pressure on them to remove adjuncts regardless of their widespread use in the 20th century.

 

[BigEd]

USians generally put waaaay too much crystal in their British recipes - that January 2018 recipe for Fuller's uses 7.2% light crystal, and for me the Fuller's beers have about as much crystal as I care for.

Yes sir, I am with you on that for sure. Over the years I've lost count of the times my replies to recipe questions start with the phrase, "way too much crystal malt". 5% is my usual dose where I choose to use crystal malt. My current ESB style is just about at that although I've bumped it up as high as 12% in a couple of experimental batches. I don't know where the general overuse of crystal comes from. Perhaps it's a holdover from bad extract recipes of decades past when crystal malt was about all there was available and every recipe seemed to add a pound.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

I don't know where the general overuse of crystal comes from.

I suspect part of it is to do with historical ingredients - pale malts that are less kilned and using less tasty varieties of barley than their British equivalents, and US caramel malts being less potent than British crystal - and partly due to filter effects, that US tourists tend to stick to the Thames Valley where the beers are more crystal-heavy than up north and in London at least the cask beer tends to be underconditioned so they end up thinking that cask bitter is meant to be flat and taste of priming sugar...

 

[brewbama]

IMO Traditional English brewers would probably use malt, sugar and coloring vs crystal and chocolate malts. Americans reach the same color and sweetness thru crystal and chocolate.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Yep, part of it is undoubtedly US brewers being unaware of the use of caramel and black malts for colouring, and trying to use crystal malts alone to hit arbitrary colour numbers.

 

[Sonja Dewhurst]

All great information! I love it thank you all!

 

[brewbama]

That's not so much the case as it used to be in the century after the Free Mash Tun Act of 1880. If you look at what respected breweries like Fulller's and Tim Taylor are doing, they used a bit of sugar 40 years ago but no longer do so for their main beers, CAMRA has put quite a lot of pressure on them to remove adjuncts regardless of their widespread use in the 20th century.

Good stuff. Thx for the course correction.