Epic Failure: My first Lagering adventure, please help for round 2!!!

[DrNuBingTon]

American Lager (Wyeast Labs #2035)

(NOTES)

21July2010 - checked gravity @48F 1.048 continuing primary at 40F-50F plan on diacetyl rest for 24-48 when 1.027SG sample in fermenter tasted sweet and free of any off flavor and surprisingly smooth. Est. alcohol percentage of sample 2.09%.

24July2010 - Checked gravity @ 48F 1.019- Transferred to diactyl rest @70F for 48 hours. Then transferring to Carboy and lowering temp to 35F for 3 weeks. Sample had initially off smell with a distinct corn smell and slight hallertau, taste strong alcohol with hallertau backing no off flavor present in sample remained smooth to the pallet. Perhaps less corn and more rice in next batch. est. 5.88%ABV in sample.

26JULY2010 - Returned to cold from Diactyl rest for secondary 1.014SG, slight off smell could be residual corn fragrance and, in any event using less corn for second try. Tastes sweet and smooth with definite butter taste.

06August2010 – Racked to corny and added 17psi co2. Sample tasting extreme butter!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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[Somewhere I had read to Diacetyl Rest when you hit half SG, in this attempt I hit it in 4 days. Another issue that may have contributed to the Movie theater butter flavor could have been not adding the yeast to fermentation temp wort (roughly 50f).]

Anyone master the art of Lagering? This being my first time I initially thought the diacetyl flavor was from my corn adjunct as you can see in the notes. My plan was to stick the Primary in my temp monitored fridge (40-50 degrees F) for 1 week, preform Diacetyl Rest @ 50% SG and move to secondary where I would crank down the temp 10degrees and eventually (1-2 weeks later) rack and force CO2 letting it age for a good month.

Just going by John Palmers online publications and cruising through numerous forums I created this plan, should I keep any part of it for round 2? And is there any salvaging my First Domestic Lager?

Thanks,
D

 

[LagerLover24]

I don't do a diacetyl rest until I hit my final gravity. At 1.019 the yeast may be slowing down, but by no means is it done fermenting. I have also heard the 1/2 of SG rule, but waiting for the fermentation to finish has always worked well for me. There is still plenty of leftover yeast to clean up the beer. Patience is the key to good lagers.

 

[Yooper]

40 degrees is a bit too cold for most of the lager yeast strains that I'm familiar with. I ferment most of my lagers at 48-50.

A good time to do a diacetyl rest is when you're 75% of the way to FG. Ideally, you'd allow the beer to finish up during the diacteyl rest. I'm not sure what you're saying about corn and diacetyl, so I can't speak to that at all.

A diacetyl rest should be done while the beer is still on the yeast cake, during the tail end of fermentation. I'm not sure that's what happened here, since you mentioned "transferring the beer for the diacetyl rest".

In short, here's my lagering procedure:

Make a HUGE starter. Place it in the fridge for several days.

Brew. Chill wort to 48 degrees. Aerate well. Decant spent wort from the yeast starter and allow it to raise to 46 degrees. Pour into wort, cover and airlock. Ferment at 50 degrees for about 10 days, and then raise the temp to 60 degrees for the diacetyl rest. (If doing- pitching a HUGE starter and at fermentation temps often means you don't need a diacteyl rest but it won't harm it to do the rest anyway.)

After the d-rest, you should be at FG. Rack, and lower the carboy to lagering temps. I like to go one week for every 8-10 points of OG. So, for a 1.060 lager, I lager it for 6-8 weeks.

That's about it. It's a few more steps, but not too bad.

 

[azscoob]

I also wait until FG is reached, then bump up the temp for the d-rest. all my lagers have turned out fantastic thus far, my first lager I was going to do the 50% thing but life got in the way and I was at FG when I did the D-rest and have done it ever since. As yoop said, another thing to remember is to pitch epic amounts of yeast into the beer, underpitching is not good for lagers, and it looks like you are going for a light American lager with little room for error flavor-wise, I also pitch my starter at or below fermenting temp, with the wort also at or a little below ferm temps. I hope this helps work the kinks out of your process.

as for your butter flavored beer, have a bowl of popcorn while enjoying your beer, should go great together!

oh oh..... pour the beer over the popcorn like cereal and eat it with a spoon!

 

[DrNuBingTon]

Thanks so much for your help Broski's,

YooperBrew, I'll try that later this week and hopefully have a better Lagering experience. I picked up a Johnson Digital Temperature Controller, so getting the temp consistant shouldn't be a problem.

So:

50F Primary
60F D-Rest
40ishF? What temp do you suggest Lagering at? and should I do a secondary?

 

[DrNuBingTon]

I'm gonna take your advice for next time and let it reach FG.

And copious amounts of yeast!! FTW

as for your butter flavored beer, have a bowl of popcorn while enjoying your beer, should go great together!

oh oh..... pour the beer over the popcorn like cereal and eat it with a spoon!

:rockin:

 

[azscoob]

after the D-rest, rack off the yeast into a secondary or a keg and drop the temp a few degrees per day to lagering temps (I go 36-40°)and give it a taste in a few months.

 

[android]

don't let it go just yet. i had a lager (only my 2nd) that i recently tried after lagering for about 3 weeks and tasted a lot of diacetyl in it. i was given a recommendation of pouring off a bit of the beer in the keg and getting the rest of the yeast out. it actually tasted pretty good after i did that and continues to get better every day.

 

[DrNuBingTon]

android,

Great advice! I decided to take it away from lagering for a few days and removed about a quart from the keg.... I can still taste the diacetyl slightly but its now drinkable!

HASSAH!!

 

[Julohan]

After the D-rest should the temp be lowered slowly? Does that go for raising the temp for the D-rest?

 

[Yooper]

After the D-rest should the temp be lowered slowly? Does that go for raising the temp for the D-rest?

Yes. No. In that order!

You don't have to lower the temperature slowly after racking following the diacetyl rest, but many brewers do. There is a school of thought (I read it from Kaiser's website) that the lager yeast is still working slowly and lowering the temperature to lagering temperatures slowly doesn't cause the yeast to go dormant. I'm not sure I buy that, but I've always done my lagers that way. After racking, I slowly lower the temp about 5 degrees per day until I'm at 34 degrees for the lagering.

As far as raising the temperature to d-rest temperatures, I can't think of any reason to do it slowly. It takes a while for 5 gallons of beer to raise in temperature anyway, so even if you set the ambient from 50 degrees to 60 degrees, it would take a while to get up to 60 degrees. I can't think of any benefit to doing it more slowly than naturally.

 

[ThickHead]

After the D-rest should the temp be lowered slowly? Does that go for raising the temp for the D-rest?

That was the advice given to me. I will always lower incrementally over a 3 day period to get to my lagering temp. As far as raising it for D-rest, I do it all at once. I have never gotten any advice to do it differently.

 

[mhot55]

Huge Starter. about 12 days at 50-55*. 3 days at 60-65* for a rest. Then minimum 3 weeks, sometimes 4-10 weeks secondary at 40-45*(lower several degrees per day until get to your temp) . Done about a dozen lagers (all different kinds- dark ones, light ones, amber ones) and haven't had any problem with any of them. I don't follow scientific aspect to heart (I try to screw with the batch as little as possible- more readings= more possibility of infection), but am in the general area.
In fact, I don't know if i ever tasted diacetyl (just jinxed myself didn't I?)

Maybe on your rest, give it another day. Or even jack up temp a couple of degrees (I wouldn't go to warm though). Again this is my intermediate opinion.