Electric kettle vs control panel

[stageseven]

Hi all, I could really use some advice on getting my electric brewing setup started. I started a project to convert my basement into a brewing space probably 3 years ago, but due to various issues hadn't really made a lot of progress. I've finally gotten to a point where I'm able to get the construction side of things underway though. However, it looks like in that time there have been a lot of cool looking new products that have come out for electric brewing. My original plan was to have to buy a control panel and run a 30A 220V line to my basement for it, install heating elements in my pots, etc. Now though, after looking at products like the grainfather or brewers edge I'm wondering if it's more cost and time effective to just buy one of these products.

Currently I'm doing all grain with a 10 gallon cooler mash tun, batch sparging, and boiling in a 10 gallon SS pot on a stovetop with an immersible heating element to help speed up the boil. I'm not looking necessarily to do a bunch of automation of my process ever, as long as I can make the transition from my current kitchen setup to my basement without a lot of extra effort I'll be happy. I'm also definitely not interested in building my own control panel, at most I'd be buying a complete kit and putting it together myself but would really prefer something I can just use as is.

I'm wondering what the primary advantages are to a control panel setup like the Electric Brewery control panel are compared to something like the grainfather? What I have so far

Control panel:
Faster boil times for 220V
Able to use with existing equipment
Upgrade capabilities if I ever want to add pumps
Swap parts easier if anything breaks

Electric kettle:
110 capable, so no need to run new electric lines
No worrying about incompatible parts
Somehow seems to be cheaper in general
Some models have pumps/automation built in

Anything else I'm missing? Any recommendations for other products to look at? Thanks a bunch!

 

[mirthfuldragon]

I think you pretty much nailed it. I'm still in the process of designing and building a recirculating e-BIAB. A couple of club members demonstrated their electric kettles (Grainfater, Robobrew, Mash and Boil), and in retrospect I probably should have bought a Grainfather from the get-go. My current setup somewhat mirrors yours, using a 10 gallon cooler mash tun. I am interested in building my own control panel (probably based around an Auber EZ-Boil).

I wouldn't say the Grainfather is cheaper - I expect to beat it's price point in terms of dollars spent. In terms of time and hassle . . . we won't talk about that; my current brew vessels are near-mirror polished keggles, and that took more than a bit of time and more than a bit of hassle (but looks sexy).

 

[stageseven]

Thanks for the reply. It looks like I have some more research to do as far as control panels are concerned. I wasn't aware of the Auber EZ-Boil, but I see there are some fairly inexpensive controllers with minimal features using it that may do everything I really need. Even the cheaper prebuilt panels I was familiar with from before were upwards of $1300, but this doesn't seem to be the case now. I still like the features and simplicity of something like a Grainfather, but I'm also a little concerned about just not having the power to come to a boil reasonably quickly and some other quirks in the system I've read about like the element shutting itself off if it gets trub/debris on it.

 

[LittlejohnBrew]

You mentioned you currently use a submersible heating element. How many watts and could you use this with the grainfather to speed up the process? One neat thing with the grainfather is I believe you can use the app to schedule a start time to begin heating the strike water so it's ready to go when you are.

I'm in the middle of a build myself, but doing a 240v DIY build. Mostly because I enjoy tackling projects and enjoy the process side of brewing as much as the actual beer. Also it can be lower cost to build your own. But as you indicated you want to do the minimum amount of work yourself. Which leads me to...what is your budget?

 

[wilserbrewer]

E-brewing can be as simple or sophisticated as you desire. It can also be as inexpensive or expensive as you desire.

Anywhere from a $1300 control panel, to a $7 on off switch on a 2000 watt element in your 10 gallon kettle, using manual temp control techniques as you do now on your stove.

The grainfather at 1650 watts merely boils at full power, similar to what you would do with a 2000w element in your 10 gallon kettle.

I’ve been E brewing in my basement with stupid simple technique for ten years, before any of these wonderful new options were available and haven’t bothered to upgrade because the simple manual method works well for me.

Ymmv

 

[stageseven]

You mentioned you currently use a submersible heating element. How many watts and could you use this with the grainfather to speed up the process? One neat thing with the grainfather is I believe you can use the app to schedule a start time to begin heating the strike water so it's ready to go when you are.

It's just a 1000W bucket heater, I have a glass-top stove and since my normal process involves sparging with extra water to get 7 gallons pre-boil and doing a longer boil, this really helps with being able to get to a boil in the first place and boil down a little faster. I suppose I could use it if necessary but that would mean making sure I'm using 2 different circuits. I know I've already had one of these fail as well, so that's a bit of a deterrent.

Which leads me to...what is your budget?

Honestly I don't have a hard budget for this, my concern is with finding the most cost-effective solution to meet my current and anticipated needs. Basically if it does everything I need, works well, uses reliable parts, and hits some extra wants without adding too much to the overall price I'll do it. My major thoughts right now are about whether I need to get a 240 line run before I start putting up drywall in my brewing space, what the advantages are, and how much extra cost that is going to add vs how much of my process I'd need to change to use a system that runs off a standard 20A circuit.

 

[GParkins]

whether I need to get a 240 line run before I start putting up drywall in my brewing space

If your walls are open right now, it will never be cheaper to pull the cable for a dedicated outlet. You can always choose to not use it, but if it turns out that a full electric system is what you really wanted, it will be expensive to retrofit.

 

[augiedoggy]

With the advent of the prewired inkbird ipb 16 like this one,
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Inkbird-IP...378291&hash=item5b3984b6e6:g:evgAAOSwlY1ZNlsT

I surprised more people arent just using these as control panels? as far as the pump goes there are a number of way you can ad a switched line to control it or modify the alarm outlet wiring for the pump.

This can easily be modified to control a 4500w 17-18 amp 240v element as well... it would certainly be easier than building one from scratch.

 

[LittlejohnBrew]

With the advent of the prewired inkbird ipb 16 like this one,
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Inkbird-IP...378291&hash=item5b3984b6e6:g:evgAAOSwlY1ZNlsT

I surprised more people arent just using these as control panels? as far as the pump goes there are a number of way you can ad a switched line to control it or modify the alarm outlet wiring for the pump.

This can easily be modified to control a 4500w 17-18 amp 240v element as well... it would certainly be easier than building one from scratch.

I considered the ipb-16 as well, but I like the benefits of the EZboil (auto power adjustment at boil, timer, etc.). Also unmodified the ipb-16 limits you to 1650W which may not be enough for an adequate boil requiring a second heating element run by a 2nd circuit. I didn't think about the possibility of modding the ipb-16 though and maybe a 2000W mod on a 20A circuit would be comparable to a grainfather?

In any case if OP buys a premade controller and uses an existing kettle there will still be some DIY involved. My question to stageseven is what all do you want to avoid with a DIY build? Are you fine drilling/punching large holes in your kettle? Fine with minor mods of an existing controller? Want to avoid electrical work? Etc.

 

[augiedoggy]

I considered the ipb-16 as well, but I like the benefits of the EZboil (auto power adjustment at boil, timer, etc.). Also unmodified the ipb-16 limits you to 1650W which may not be enough for an adequate boil requiring a second heating element run by a 2nd circuit. I didn't think about the possibility of modding the ipb-16 though and maybe a 2000W mod on a 20A circuit would be comparable to a grainfather?

In any case if OP buys a premade controller and uses an existing kettle there will still be some DIY involved. My question to stageseven is what all do you want to avoid with a DIY build? Are you fine drilling/punching large holes in your kettle? Fine with minor mods of an existing controller? Want to avoid electrical work? Etc.

according to what Ive read the grainfather is only 1650w as well... they have a second element to speed up heating times.

the controller is limited to 16amps at 240v 16amps is like 4000w... this controller is sold for 240v with a different plug on the end in 240v countries.. so that means a person could easily use this for controlling a 240v element up to 4000w.

I have both eZboil (dsp310 I believe) and pids and they both do the actual job of maintaining temps very well...

I agree we need to know the priorities of the OP, when I hear things like building a dedicated brew room I immediately think he might be looking for eye candy as well and in that case function/costs arguments aside these options may not cut it for him but considering what hes using now and his mention of controlling the cost side of things tells me something like this may be perfect... He can always buy predrilled kettles..

 

[stageseven]

I considered the ipb-16 as well, but I like the benefits of the EZboil (auto power adjustment at boil, timer, etc.). Also unmodified the ipb-16 limits you to 1650W which may not be enough for an adequate boil requiring a second heating element run by a 2nd circuit. I didn't think about the possibility of modding the ipb-16 though and maybe a 2000W mod on a 20A circuit would be comparable to a grainfather?

In any case if OP buys a premade controller and uses an existing kettle there will still be some DIY involved. My question to stageseven is what all do you want to avoid with a DIY build? Are you fine drilling/punching large holes in your kettle? Fine with minor mods of an existing controller? Want to avoid electrical work? Etc.

Absolutely, I have no problems with the kettle DIY side, I've already installed sight glasses in both my kettles and if I go the panel route I know I'd be installing a heat element, temperature probe, and valve - and possibly modding my mash tun to be able to either recirculate wort or some kind of heat exchange. Mostly I do just want to avoid having to put the control panel together myself. If modding was something simple like replacing one component with another or drilling a hole and soldering some wires then it wouldn't be out of the question, but at the same time I'm fine with paying for someone else to have spend the time on design, sourcing components, and assembly if it does what I want and doesn't require me to pay for features I'm never going to use.

As far as what those feature are, I'm envisioning using my 2 existing kettles with identical heat sticks/temp probes so I have a boil kettle and HLT, and just swap which probe/element is plugged in, and then maybe installing a copper wort chiller in my mash tun so I can pump hot water from my HLT through the mash to maintain temp or do step mashes. I'm thinking for a controller I'd need 1 heat element connection, 1-2 temp probe connections for the currently used kettle and the mash tun if I go with that option, and then 1 pump control.

So far something like the Wort Hog EBC-330 or Auber Homebrew Control Panel seems to fit that bill.

 

[augiedoggy]

the inkbird controller mentioned above can easily control these elements with very minor changes like a new plug...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/ZIM-240v-3...WEAAOSw4Ehai14F:sc:USPSFirstClass!14120!US!-1

or even this one..
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Camco-0291...532472429?epid=2288861487&hash=item3d5bc2686d

and there are stainless based versions out there as well.

 

[mirthfuldragon]

I still like the features and simplicity of something like a Grainfather, but I'm also a little concerned about just not having the power to come to a boil reasonably quickly and some other quirks in the system I've read about like the element shutting itself off if it gets trub/debris on it.

I asked that exact question at our club meeting, and the owner said his brew days are about 4 to 5 hours total. I don't remember the exact time to achieve boil, but I do remember thinking "hey, that's decent, and that amount of time is not an issue."

What impressed me the most is the integrated controller for programming and setting mash temps and rests. He demo'd the Grainfather Connect, and the ability to set steps and temps and timers on the app seems really nice, and replicating that in a panel is going to take some doing. Every time I think about it, I almost reach for my credit card . . .

 

[LittlejohnBrew]

Sounds like you want a list of pros/cons of each so I updated your list below. Maybe others can update this list.

Control panel:

• Faster boil times for 220V
• Able to use with existing equipment
• Upgrade capabilities if I ever want to add pumps. 24v tan pumps work well and only cost ~$20
• Swap parts easier if anything breaks
• If you decide to do 10-15 gallon batches 240v is pretty much a must
• In my case I have a 10 gallon and 20 gallon kettle. I plan to install 1.5" TC weldless bulkheads on both so I can easily transfer my 5500W TC heating element between the kettles to do different batch sizes.
• Depending on existing equipment a simple eBIAB build can be half the cost of a grainfather. Premade may end up being comparable in cost to grainfather.
• Access to 240v supply typically not as convenient
• Parts generally cost more for a 240v diy build vs 120v diy

Electric kettle (assuming urn type):

• 110 capable, so no need to run new electric lines
• No worrying about incompatible parts
• Somehow seems to be cheaper in general
• Some models have pumps/automation built in]
• Brewers Edge Mash and boil temperature control issues. Not sure if robobrew or grainfather have those issues.
• Grain bill typically have lower limits on these due to smaller vessel volume.

 

[stageseven]

Grain bill typically have lower limits on these due to smaller vessel volume.

This is a good point that I hadn't really thought about, but it looks like with a Grainfather at least I would lose ~3-4lb capacity on my current setup and never have the option to upgrade. I don't really do a ton of high gravity brews and adding extract is always an option. Still, my bigger concern is part failure, which after reading 20ish pages of the grainfather thread seems like it's not common but possible.

Overall I feel like I am leaning towards the 240V with control panel option. I don't see myself ever making the switch to a 10 gallon or higher setup, but at the very least having the ability to replace individual components would make me feel better. I'm going to start planning out specifics of the system I want to build so I can compare final prices and features more directly.


EDIT: In an unexpected turn of events, I checked my breaker box to make sure I had room for another 30A breaker, found there was one turned off, and ended up tracing it to a disconnected line already running to my basement. So 240 it is.

 

[wilserbrewer]

Lol eyes wide open good for you

 

[wilserbrewer]

Something not mentioned is the Hot Rod heatstick from brewhardware.com

Can be used in multiple vessels and can support a temp sensor....hence no drilling and can be moved from MT to boil kettle....just an idea

 

[Bobby_M]

I can't stress enough how different the experience is between urn systems and a 240v kettle. My 5500w BIAB brew day is 3.5 to 3.75 hours. The Mash N Boil took 5.5 hours and it only reached 208f instead of 212f. Build yourself a controller based on the EZ boil for under $200.

 

[doug293cz]

I can't stress enough how different the experience is between urn systems and a 240v kettle. My 5500w BIAB brew day is 3.5 to 3.75 hours. The Mash N Boil took 5.5 hours and it only reached 208f instead of 212f. Build yourself a controller based on the EZ boil for under $200.

An EZBoil controller design can be as simple as this:

If you want to control a pump from the same control panel, you just have to add a couple of additional components.

Brew on