Electric Here I come (boogie woogie woogie)

[Beer:30]

Well, I've finally committed to converting my rig and going full electric! The new brew space has an electric stove outlet already. It looks like I can swap out the existing dual breaker for a 60a GFCI and I'm cooking baby! Based on my calculations it looks like $2,700 gets me all the hardware; 50a PID control panel (E Brewing Supply), two 5500w ripples from the electric brewery, steam condenser from Bobby at Brew Hardware, a sweet 50" sink with drainboard (Toollots), a stainless equipment table (webstaurant). Sorry guys, just feels like Christmas morning thinking about it. Now to scrape up the dough!!! A ski mask and a couple of 7-11s and we're good to go.

 

[Bobby_M]

I'd look at the Auber Brew Buddy panel for two reasons. First the price is a bit lower. Granted it's not a shiny stainless box. Second, it uses the EZboil controllers instead of the generic push button PIDs.

Elements... Triclamp is better and cheaper than modified electrical boxes.. https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/elementkit_tcrip_wl.htm

 

[Ahks]

I'll second using a controller that utilizes EZBoil(s). My first panel was controlled by a PID and the workflow was easy, but unnecessarily complicated. Swapped it for an EZBoil and flipping between mash and boil functions is so much simpler, while still having a pile of nerdy features under the hood.

It also holds mash temps better than the PID did even after tuning

 

[Beer:30]

I will look into that for sure Bobby. I was just checking out your elements on your site! Questions. I want to be able to boil 20 gallons in a reasonable amount of time. Will one of the 5500w ripples be up to the task or am I dreaming?

 

[Ahks]

I will look into that for sure Bobby. I was just checking out your elements on your site! Questions. I want to be able to boil 20 gallons in a reasonable amount of time. Will one of the 5500w ripples be up to the task or am I dreaming?

I think I can answer this. Unless my math is broken. 5500 watts at immersion heater efficiency should be able to raise your wort from "mash out" temps (~170F) to boil in a bit under 25 minutes. If you're doing LoDO and preboiling very cold tap water (~50f), it would take ~90 minutes to go from my winter tap temps to boiling.

 

[Bobby_M]

I think I can answer this. Unless my math is broken. 5500 watts at immersion heater efficiency should be able to raise your wort from "mash out" temps (~170F) to boil in a bit under 25 minutes. If you're doing LoDO and preboiling very cold tap water (~50f), it would take ~90 minutes to go from my winter tap temps to boiling.

Those numbers are correct. The nice thing about having a 50amp panel is that the ramp to dough in is pretty fast if you split heating duty between the BK and HLT. Assuming it's a HERMS system, cover the coil in the HLT and put the measured amount of strike water in the boil kettle. As you sparge, have the boil kettle set to boiling as soon as the element is covered. You won't be waiting for a boil, you'll be waiting for the preboil volume to be reached as you boil.

 

[mongoose33]

I installed one of Bobby's tri-clamp bulkheads on a kettle I have so I could use one of those 5500watt elements. I'm amazed how solid it is (as well as the 1/2" npt bulkheads). Works perfectly and is every bit as solid as if it were a welded fitting. Only thing is you need either the large socket to use with a socket wrench, or some other way to tighten that down. This is what I'm referring to: https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/52mmsocket.htm

 

[augiedoggy]

I installed one of Bobby's tri-clamp bulkheads on a kettle I have so I could use one of those 5500watt elements. I'm amazed how solid it is (as well as the 1/2" npt bulkheads). Works perfectly and is every bit as solid as if it were a welded fitting. Only thing is you need either the large socket to use with a socket wrench, or some other way to tighten that down. This is what I'm referring to: https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/52mmsocket.htm

I used a large pair of channel locks which also worked to hold the retaining nut. the socket you linked would have been easier.

 

[Beer:30]

I'll second using a controller that utilizes EZBoil(s). My first panel was controlled by a PID and the workflow was easy, but unnecessarily complicated. Swapped it for an EZBoil and flipping between mash and boil functions is so much simpler, while still having a pile of nerdy features under the hood.

It also holds mash temps better than the PID did even after tuning

That last statement is the most important prt of your advice. Temp control is the whole point. Hmmmm

 

[Beer:30]

Those numbers are correct. The nice thing about having a 50amp panel is that the ramp to dough in is pretty fast if you split heating duty between the BK and HLT. Assuming it's a HERMS system, cover the coil in the HLT and put the measured amount of strike water in the boil kettle. As you sparge, have the boil kettle set to boiling as soon as the element is covered. You won't be waiting for a boil, you'll be waiting for the preboil volume to be reached as you boil.

Yes a HERMS. Pardon my ignorance here Bobby, but don’t I need the BK empty to lauter? I’m not gonna add all the sparge water to the MLT at once, it needs to match the outflow with 1” over.

 

[sicktght311]

What bobby means, and which is common practice with 3v herms, is to start running off from your mash tun to your boil kettle, as you're transferring water over the top of your grain bed during the fly sparge. Once the element in the boil kettle is submerged, you can turn on the boil kettles element and start heating the wort thats continuously filling the BK. This way you're pretty much almost at a boil by the time you reach your target volume in the boil kettle. If you didnt turn the element on until you were finished sparging and transferring tot he boil kettle, you would just be adding more time to take your full boil kettle from 150-170 degrees, up to boil temps. This just gives you a head start

 

[sicktght311]

What bobby means, and which is common practice with 3v herms, is to start running off from your mash tun to your boil kettle, as you're transferring water over the top of your grain bed during the fly sparge. Once the element in the boil kettle is submerged, you can turn on the boil kettles element and start heating the wort thats continuously filling the BK. This way you're pretty much almost at a boil by the time you reach your target volume in the boil kettle. If you didnt turn the element on until you were finished sparging and transferring tot he boil kettle, you would just be adding more time to take your full boil kettle from 150-170 degrees, up to boil temps. This just gives you a head start

You dont really need to "lauter" in the traditional sense, since a herms system is basically lautering as you're mashing since you're recirculating over the grain bed throughout. Once your mash is over, you raise temp to mash out, and then you start the fly sparging process (or you can batch sparge if you like, but most fly sparge)

 

[mongoose33]

You dont really need to "lauter" in the traditional sense, since a herms system is basically lautering as you're mashing since you're recirculating over the grain bed throughout. Once your mash is over, you raise temp to mash out, and then you start the fly sparging process (or you can batch sparge if you like, but most fly sparge)

That's essentially the same thing I'm doing w/ my RIMS--once the mash is over, I just switch the pump output hose from the return manifold in my mash tun to the lower ball valve on the BK, and set it to filling. I have a sight glass on the output of the mash tun to monitor the "lautering" and when it's clear, it's clear.

Two examples; in the first the wort is so clear you can read the writing on the paper behind it; on the second, no can do because it's my Darth Lager, and dark it must be!

I only do single-infusion so no sparging, but if I were, I'd probably do a batch sparge, stir, let the pump clear it, then that would go in the BK too.

 

[Beer:30]

What bobby means, and which is common practice with 3v herms, is to start running off from your mash tun to your boil kettle, as you're transferring water over the top of your grain bed during the fly sparge. Once the element in the boil kettle is submerged, you can turn on the boil kettles element and start heating the wort thats continuously filling the BK. This way you're pretty much almost at a boil by the time you reach your target volume in the boil kettle. If you didnt turn the element on until you were finished sparging and transferring tot he boil kettle, you would just be adding more time to take your full boil kettle from 150-170 degrees, up to boil temps. This just gives you a head start

This is exactly what i do. I just got thrown off when he said to heat sparge water in the BK. That kind of ties up the real estate. But if you think of it, if you did heat all your sparge water in the BK, you could still start the runoff of first running into it, and keep it recirculating into the MT. Just a prolonged vorlauf.

 

[Bobby_M]

This is exactly what i do. I just got thrown off when he said to heat sparge water in the BK. That kind of ties up the real estate. But if you think of it, if you did heat all your sparge water in the BK, you could still start the runoff of first running into it, and keep it recirculating into the MT. Just a prolonged vorlauf.

I actually didn't say that. You heat your sparge water in the HLT, usually enough to cover the HERMS coil. I suggested heating the STRIKE water in the boil kettle which will be transferred to the mash tun right before stirring the grain in. Now the boil kettle is empty during the mash and ready to accept the runoff during sparging.

To say this another way, you have a lot of water to heat up in a HERMS sytem before you can do anything else. With a 50 amp panel, you can run both the HLT and BK elements at the same time so splitting the heating job is faster.

 

[Bobby_M]

You dont really need to "lauter" in the traditional sense, since a herms system is basically lautering as you're mashing since you're recirculating over the grain bed throughout. Once your mash is over, you raise temp to mash out, and then you start the fly sparging process (or you can batch sparge if you like, but most fly sparge)

I think you're confusing the word Lautering with Vorlaufing. HERMS is like an extended vorlauf. Lautering and sparging happen simultaneously in a fly sparge. Lautering is specifically the separation, holding the grain back while sweet wort is drained away.

 

[Beer:30]

I actually didn't say that. You heat your sparge water in the HLT, usually enough to cover the HERMS coil. I suggested heating the STRIKE water in the boil kettle which will be transferred to the mash tun right before stirring the grain in. Now the boil kettle is empty during the mash and ready to accept the runoff during sparging.

To say this another way, you have a lot of water to heat up in a HERMS sytem before you can do anything else. With a 50 amp panel, you can run both the HLT and BK elements at the same time so splitting the heating job is faster.

Yep, sorry I read through your post fast and wasn't paying attention. Makes perfect sense.
Bobby, can you expand a little why you prefer the EZboil controllers over the push button PIDS for a 50 AMP HERMS?
Thanks in advance

 

[Bobby_M]

My preference for the EZboil module extends to every system type so it's not just 50 amp panels or HERMS systems.

First, parameter adjustment including target temp input and boil intensity is adjusted with a speed-sensitive knob/dial. You can only appreciate this having used a Push Button PID for while and then using the EZboil. Have you ever had a car radio without a volume knob? It sucks.

In mash mode, the EZboil generally doesn't need to be tuned as there are not explicit PID parameters to program. It's pretty close right out of the box. If you get overshoot, there is a single compensation parameter in the menu.

EZboils have timers built in and you can have the end of those timers do things, like shut the heat off (or just sound an alarm which is also built in).

EZboils have alarm/beepers built in. Oh, the strike water just reached set temp... beep beep beep. The boil kettle just reached 209F, beep beep beep come and watch this thing so you don't boil over and be ready for the first hop addition.

The EZboil has a boil acceleration feature. It will run the element 100% balls out until your selected temperature (I use 208F) and it will back off to your predetermined power output (I use 62% for a 7 gallon boil). This gets you to the boil as fast as possible without the fear of an unattended boilover. I never had a boilover on this controller.

The boil control on the EZboil is noticeably better than a PID. PIDs usually run pulse width based on a minimum cycle time of 1 or 2 seconds. A 50% boil on a 2 second cycle time means 1 second on and 1 second off. You can sometimes see pulsing in the boil. The EZboil pulses are about 1/60th of a second.

On the flip side, I can't think of a single thing a typical PID module does better than the EZboil.

 

[Ahks]

A 50% boil on a 2 second cycle time means 1 second on and 1 second off. You can sometimes see pulsing in the boil. The EZboil pulses are about 1/60th of a second.

Auber published a cool doc on how they chop up a 60Hz wave form to accomplish this too if you're the nerdy type it's on the EZboil Technical Talk link at the bottom of the the product page https://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=53&products_id=769

I don't completely understand it, but it looks cool [emoji23]

 

[Beer:30]

My preference for the EZboil module extends to every system type so it's not just 50 amp panels or HERMS systems.

First, parameter adjustment including target temp input and boil intensity is adjusted with a speed-sensitive knob/dial. You can only appreciate this having used a Push Button PID for while and then using the EZboil. Have you ever had a car radio without a volume knob? It sucks.

In mash mode, the EZboil generally doesn't need to be tuned as there are not explicit PID parameters to program. It's pretty close right out of the box. If you get overshoot, there is a single compensation parameter in the menu.

EZboils have timers built in and you can have the end of those timers do things, like shut the heat off (or just sound an alarm which is also built in).

EZboils have alarm/beepers built in. Oh, the strike water just reached set temp... beep beep beep. The boil kettle just reached 209F, beep beep beep come and watch this thing so you don't boil over and be ready for the first hop addition.

The EZboil has a boil acceleration feature. It will run the element 100% balls out until your selected temperature (I use 208F) and it will back off to your predetermined power output (I use 62% for a 7 gallon boil). This gets you to the boil as fast as possible without the fear of an unattended boilover. I never had a boilover on this controller.

The boil control on the EZboil is noticeably better than a PID. PIDs usually run pulse width based on a minimum cycle time of 1 or 2 seconds. A 50% boil on a 2 second cycle time means 1 second on and 1 second off. You can sometimes see pulsing in the boil. The EZboil pulses are about 1/60th of a second.

On the flip side, I can't think of a single thing a typical PID module does better than the EZboil.

Wow, those are several convincing points Bobby. Thanks for tanking the time as usual. Another reason why I will continue to buy fro BH;

 

[sicktght311]

I think you're confusing the word Lautering with Vorlaufing. HERMS is like an extended vorlauf. Lautering and sparging happen simultaneously in a fly sparge. Lautering is specifically the separation, holding the grain back while sweet wort is drained away.

Sorry i probably didnt express what i was trying to say properly. I meant that you dont typically use a separate lautering vessel with the traditional Spike/ElectricBrewery/Kal type 3v herms setup like you would in a full brewhouse where you have HLT->Mash Tun->Lauter Tun->boil kettle. The false bottom in the mash tun acts as the Mash Tun, and Lautering Vessel, all in one (MLT), So you're not transferring anywhere else after the mash other than the cleared sweet wort to the boil kettle

 

[Beer:30]

I am about to put a LARGE order into Bobby. Followed by a complete conversion of my rig to electric. I have a bit of work ahead of me. Very excited and a little nervous changing things up so much! But goodbye propane, hello inside!

 

[WesBrew]

Sounds cool! for comparison I'm planning out a simple setup with a 30a circuit and single 5500w element to use the stuff I have. BC programmed to heat all of my water. pump over strike water to insulated mash tun, leaving heated sparge water in the kettle. switch pump to Tun to recirc wort through a herms coil in the kettle with temp set just above mash temp. drain wort into a pot (lautering vessel) while pumping sparge water from kettle into tun. switch pump to lauterpot and pump up to kettle for boil. I'd have to switch the pump once more for the plate chiller. maybe I missed something but I think this will work for lower amp circuit with single element.

 

[Beer:30]

I hear ya Wesbrew; there is something to be said for being resourceful. And you are an inventive guy who likes to tinker based on your past posts. I am absent minded and easily distracted. I like the idea of a do it once dialed in system that will require minimal tweaking on brew day once I get it tuned in. Brew prep and cleanup is enough. My system has been running since about ‘04, so the bones are there, this is a timely overhaul that I know will make my beer more consistent. Cheers!

 

[WesBrew]

Your setup sounds awesome and prob how most do it. I just have limited space. We all see electric as the way to go. I’ll have some pump line juggling to do but it’s going to be way easier with a controller and not dragging it all outside for gas. can’t wait to brew in the a/c .

 

[Beer:30]

I hear ya, in the last house I had all my equipment in the basement and brewed on the back deck. That translated to 10,000 trips up and down the stairs no matter how well I planned ahead. Not to mention frozen hoses, rain, bees. It’s gonna be a new universe for me. I’m really stoked. And when my wife divorces me, all the stuff will be together for easy picture taking and posting to craigslist.
I’ll try to post some pics of the space build out as I go. Though I anticipate slow going as work is busy lately. Cheers!

 

[WesBrew]

I hear ya, in the last house I had all my equipment in the basement and brewed on the back deck. That translated to 10,000 trips up and down the stairs no matter how well I planned ahead. Not to mention frozen hoses, rain, bees.

Going in and out of the back door was killing me as much as the heat. if had to go up and down stairs too I would have quit brewing altogether. lol or gone to extract brewing. look forward to seeing your space setup.