Efficiency - BeerSmith Question

[rodrigomagno]

Hello all!! Recently, I'm struggling a little bit with predicted and actual OGs at BeerSmith after an upgrade to 10gal SS kettles... I don't know if it's the volume calculations, or the boil off, but I'm missing the predicted gravity by 5 or 6 points and I would like to have some advice here.
My last brew was a NEIPA with a projected OG of 1075, but it came as 1069 (16.8 Brix). Estimated Pre-Boiling was 1065 and it came 1059....
Brewer's friend calculator tell me that with the grain bill I used I was suposed to achieve an OG of 1067 while BeerSmith predicted 1075 as I said...
Any insights on what am I missing here?!
This grain bill is suposed to yeld 1075 or 1067?

https://ibb.co/i6uoRv
https://ibb.co/jxW2mv

 

[kh54s10]

We don't have enough information. In Beersmith there is a lot of information that you have to enter in your equipment profile that has to be accurate to get reliable gravity information. It took me a half a dozen brews to get reasonably accurate, then half a dozen more of fine tuning.

Check your dead space amounts, and make sure you are collecting accurate pre-boil volumes to end up with an accurate volume after the boil.

Grain crush is also important for getting the right gravity. If your crush varies so will your efficiency.

 

[rodrigomagno]

My equipment is set like this: https://ibb.co/dSR7KF
I took lots of readings among batches but since I changed my kettles something went off.
My BH efficiency was set at 72%. If I lower this to 65,20%, all the numbers get right.
My volumes seems to be right on the spot since I got 10.5gals on the fermenter...
I also mill my grains and try to get a fine crush with a 3 roll monster mill.

 

[doug293cz]

Can you give us more information about your process? Batch or fly sparge? Strike volume, total water used, pre-boil volume, post-boil volume? First runnings or mash wort SG, if you have it? These would help us diagnose your issues.

Brew on

 

[fragglerock]

Is the equipment profile you're using a result of values and percentages you've personally experienced, or is it Beersmith's generic profile for that piece of equipment? Even with mass manufactured equipment there are slight variations which, when added to different brewing practices/ locations from brewer to brewer, can throw numbers off by a bit. Have you tried just mashing up some spare grain or cheap base malt, just to tweak numbers?

 

[rodrigomagno]

Can you give us more information about your process? Batch or fly sparge? Strike volume, total water used, pre-boil volume, post-boil volume? First runnings or mash wort SG, if you have it? These would help us diagnose your issues.

Brew on

I Fly Sparge. I've measured only the Pre Boil SG and it was 1059.
OG of wort into fermenter hit 1069.
Mash temp around 152-153F
Strike water:
Mash- 9.33gals
Sparge- 8.04gals
Pre boil Volume: 14gals
Post boil:approx 12.4gals
Boiled for 60min
Into fermeneter (trub left behind): 10.56gals

 

[rodrigomagno]

Is the equipment profile you're using a result of values and percentages you've personally experienced, or is it Beersmith's generic profile for that piece of equipment? Even with mass manufactured equipment there are slight variations which, when added to different brewing practices/ locations from brewer to brewer, can throw numbers off by a bit. Have you tried just mashing up some spare grain or cheap base malt, just to tweak numbers?

I've entered all values myself... based in information on SS site, actual measures and a lot of reading here...
Never tried to mash cheap grains for tweaking, but that's an option.
Regarding BH efficiency, do you think 65.2% is a good number?

 

[fragglerock]

I've entered all values myself... based in information on SS site, actual measures and a lot of reading here...
Never tried to mash cheap grains for tweaking, but that's an option.
Regarding BH efficiency, do you think 65.2% is a good number?

When I purchased my Grainfather, I found my numbers differed even from the numbers that they the manufacturer provided to BeerSmith. It took several brews and a lot of tweaking to get things lined up with my brewing practices, location etc. Use the numbers everyone else has or that are provided as a solid starting point and play around with it from there. You said at 65.2% your numbers lined up better with predicted OG/FG so I would go with it.

 

[Oginme]

When you enter all your readings into BeerSmith on the 'session' tab for a brewed recipe, the program will calculate the actual mash and brew house efficiency you achieved versus the planned from your equipment profile. You can use this to help 'dial-in' your equipment profile to match your actual process and brewing procedure.

 

[doug293cz]

I Fly Sparge. I've measured only the Pre Boil SG and it was 1059.
OG of wort into fermenter hit 1069.
Mash temp around 152-153F
Strike water:
Mash- 9.33gals
Sparge- 8.04gals
Pre boil Volume: 14gals
Post boil:approx 12.4gals
Boiled for 60min
Into fermeneter (trub left behind): 10.56gals

Based on your water volume numbers, it looks like you fly sparge, and then drain your MLT completely. Is this the case?

If we take your pre-boil and post-boil volumes, and post-boil SG as accurate, then your pre-boil SG should have been:

Pre-Boil_SG = 1 + (Post-Boil_SG - 1) * 12.4 / 14 = 1.0611​

The discrepancy with your measured pre-boil SG suggests you may not have adequately mixed the sparged wort with the first runnings. This is a common occurrence, as good mixing requires much more stirring than people think it does. The alternative is that other measurements are in error, but most likely is pre-boil SG being in error.

Simulating your fly sparge as a triple batch sparge (because I can't simulate a real fly sparge, but a triple batch is close) results in the following efficiencies:

• Conversion: 98%
• Lauter: 87%
• Mash: 85 - 86%
• Transfer: 85%
• Brewhouse: 72 - 73%

Transfer efficiency is Fermenter Volume / Post-Boil Volume.

Based on the simulation, the BrewersFriend predictions are much closer than the BeerSmith ones, indicating that you have some significant errors in your BeerSmith settings.

Brew on

 

[rodrigomagno]

Based on your water volume numbers, it looks like you fly sparge, and then drain your MLT completely. Is this the case?

If we take your pre-boil and post-boil volumes, and post-boil SG as accurate, then your pre-boil SG should have been:

Pre-Boil_SG = 1 + (Post-Boil_SG - 1) * 12.4 / 14 = 1.0611​

The discrepancy with your measured pre-boil SG suggests you may not have adequately mixed the sparged wort with the first runnings. This is a common occurrence, as good mixing requires much more stirring than people think it does. The alternative is that other measurements are in error, but most likely is pre-boil SG being in error.

Simulating your fly sparge as a triple batch sparge (because I can't simulate a real fly sparge, but a triple batch is close) results in the following efficiencies:

• Conversion: 98%
• Lauter: 87%
• Mash: 85 - 86%
• Transfer: 85%
• Brewhouse: 72 - 73%

Transfer efficiency is Fermenter Volume / Post-Boil Volume.

Based on the simulation, the BrewersFriend predictions are much closer than the BeerSmith ones, indicating that you have some significant errors in your BeerSmith settings.

Brew on

Thank you very much for the help, @doug293cz!
That's correct. I fly sparge and completely drain my MLT...
And your analysis was exactly what I was looking for...
I'll try to tweak BS to mach those numbers and calculate my predicted OG correctly without entering such a low efficiency, like 65.2%.