Dump or Keg

[Yroc]

I have made many batches and I do not recall ever having something like this floating on my primary 21 days after I started a batch. I tasted it and it seems ok, but it looks infected to me. Should I dump it or wait longer? Does anyone know what this might be and if yes, what caused it? It is simply not completed and still fermenting? By this time my batches are usually clear with nothing on top. In this case, the brew is dark and the top is covered. Gravity is 1.003 so it is done.

 

[OG-wan Kenobi]

I would dump it, that opinion is going to be the minority opinion. Most will say if it taste fine just pull the "good" beer and keg it. I just take 0 chances and that image would be in my head every glass I poured so I know I would not drink it.

 

[MaxStout]

Pictures are kind of fuzzy, so I can't be sure, but doesn't look good. Has the krausen dropped and this is something that appeared afterward? Looks like a pellicle (infection).

I'm usually in the "don't dump it until you're sure it's bad" camp, but this might be a goner. Here's a thread with pellicle pics if you want to compare. Be sure to sanitize the heck out of everything before using again.

 

[Yroc]

I assume the Krausen dropped (I don't really pay close attention anymore).

 

[tll77]

I tasted it and it seems ok

So, what's to lose from kegging it? Do you enjoy wild/sour beers? It may turn out to be fantastic.

 

[Yroc]

Here is the close up.

 

[Smellyglove]

Seems like you're creating art in your fermenter. The first pic just looks like an ice-rink, the second like a carpet or something. Haven't seen a pellicle looking like this myself, but it looks quite beautiful and also "special", regarding to if it's an infection or not.

 

[Yroc]

I tasted it again, and since it tastes quite good, I decided to keg it.

Most of what was floating on top stuck to the sides of the primary as I poured it into the kegs (see photo). I did not keg the last 2 or so inches. Now it's a matter of making sure whatever happened this time does not happen to me again. I clean quite thoroughly with Diversol... although I have been thinking of changing to a no rinse as soon as this container runs out. Any suggestion regarding how to up my game cleaning wise?

 

[MaxStout]

Maybe that's just proteins floating on top. If it tastes good, give it a shot.

 

[ApolloSimcoe]

Well, looks like you kept it. Here's something to consider. If it does start to turn you may seriously consider replacing any tools you used to rack that beer into the keg, they may be impossible to clean/sanitze. Or you can keep said tools for future sour projects. Also you state that you "poured" the beer into the keg. Did you actually pour it in? Good luck with the brew!

 

[Yroc]

My brew barrels have a bottom spout so "gravity siphon" might be a better way to describe how I pour the beer into the kegs. The only tools I use are this siphon hose, and the barrel when I keg. When I brew I also use a spoon. Then there are the kegs. So you think I should replace some of these items instead of cleaning them?

 

[ApolloSimcoe]

Anything stainless will be fine with a good clean and sanitize. Plastic is always an issue when dealing with sours/infections. Plastic can't stand excessively hot water, scrubbing etc. I would just give everything that's plastic a really good soak in cleaner and just try to hold off using it until you are 100% certain that the current batch isn't contaminated. If the plastic is compromised all future batches that come in contact with it will be contaminated too.

 

[Yroc]

Perhaps I should buy stainless buckets when I retire these two. I will try giving this platlic one a good clean and soak before I reuse it with hopes it is not the bucket causing the problems.

 

[Jayjay1976]

I've got a batch of weizenbock that finished a month or so ago that is starting to grow a layer just like that on top. In my case I'm going to bottle it, just interested in whether yours continues to develop in the keg, since that might indicate bottle bombs for me!

 

[Abbas]

https://www.homebrewsupply.com/learn/is-my-batch-infected.html

Look at the 6th picture down on this link. It looks exactly like your close up picture. So yes, you have an infection.

 

[Smellyglove]

Its beautiful, almost a shame to dump it.

 

[jerbrew]

Here is the close up.View attachment 600992

This looks like what develops sometimes on top of my homemade vinegar.

 

[tennesseean_87]

Did you get any notes of acetone. I think I've had that before. I think I scavenged a batch or two, but some were too far gone.

 

[ApolloSimcoe]

I'll take acetobacter for $400 Alex.
In all seriousness have you ever pulled those taps apart? 10-1 the infection is hiding in those cracks and crevices. If those valves cant be taken 100% apart and cleaned i would get rid of them unless you are planning sour projects in the future. Just my .02

 

[Yroc]

I take them apart between every batch clean them and soak them in sanitizer. I have brewed 85 batches without any problems (minus this one).

I do think it is a pellicle infection after looking more stuff up on the internet but I have found nothing that suggests this means I have a "bad" batch with certainty.

Having said that I want to make sure I don't get more of these.

 

[Yroc]

Could this be caused by having the brew in the primary too long?

 

[ApolloSimcoe]

Could this be caused by having the brew in the primary too long?

No. Its caused by contamination not time. However if there is a contamination time will allow it to grow to the point that your photos show. You may have had this issue for some time and not known it was an issue because you were kegging before it got to this point. Then your kegs were put under refrigeration which slows the growth. Make sense?

 

[Yroc]

Yep.. Making another new batch in that rig right now.

I have a 2nd batch that has been underway for 11 days and so far it looks ok, although I do see some mold looking stuff floating on the top. It is 11 days in and Gravity is 1.02.

I am getting paranoid now.. lol.

 

[ApolloSimcoe]

hard to tell in the photo but it looks like another infection. See post #12

 

[ApolloSimcoe]

If you are going to use plastic spigots i highly recommend these.
https://www.morebeer.com/products/plastic-spigot-bucket.html

the actual nozzle of the spigot pulls out of the barrel for really easy cleaning. I had an infection once and the spigot was the issue.

 

[tll77]

I have found nothing that suggests this means I have a "bad" batch with certainty.

Only your palate answer this. If it tastes good, it tastes good. What is commonly referred to as an 'infection' simply means 'microbes other than those intended' have grown in the wort. Many brewers add these intentionally and some allow them to find their way in naturally.
I have had batches of sour beer that smell like vomit in the fermenter and look like something from a sci fi movie that have aged out beautifully. Traditional lambic brewers refer beer in this stage a 'sick'.

I will add that the first pic does look like a vinegar mother but certainly not the close up pic. Vinegar mother also takes a long time to form(especially that thick) and you certainly would have smelled/tasted vinegar before you see the mother.

 

[Yroc]

the actual nozzle of the spigot pulls out of the barrel for really easy cleaning. I had an infection once and the spigot was the issue.

The spouts I use are removed, broken down and cleaned. This is one that is not being used right now broken down.

 

[Jayjay1976]

Those look like they can't be broken down all the way. You need to be able to pull apart each single piece to eliminate biofilm from forming which can harbor bacteria and protect it from sanitizer. The spigots linked above by @ApolloSimcoe are what I use because they are easy to pull apart. I had a couple of infections lead to over-carbed bottles and since that happened I sponge down the inside of my PET fermenter with a PBW soaked sponge, use a toothbrush on threads, nuts, small bits, etc. then a short soak in bleach solution before air drying until needed again. Then on brew day I soak everything in hot star san while brewing and assemble everything wet while the beer is chilling. Solved my problems, which I am convinced were the result of a biofilm. Bleach eats biofilm for breakfast, just don't use it on stainless.

 

[Yroc]

Those look like they can't be broken down all the way.

Seems to me that every part of the spigot that is exposed to the wort is fully accessible and cleaned/sanitized.

Regardless, I am going to investigate replacing all the plastic will stainless.

Can folks confirm to me that after 10-15 days the top of their wort is 100% crystal clear (minus some remains of Krausen on the sides). If this is what others get, that is what I am going to try and get.

 

[BrewInspector]

Nope, can't confirm that.
Krausen fails to fall.
CO2 bubbles form.
Yeast floats on top.

While it is more common that there is little if anything floating on top given enough time, things appear. Each beer is different. Sometimes it is an unintended infection other time not.

Something in your equipment post boil is harboring some bug. This stuff can be cleaned or replaced to eliminate the infection with some work and intent. While the taps or fermenter may be the source it could be somewhere else as well or instead. Stainless is not totally necessary or a cure all to preventing future infection.

 

[pvpeacock]

I made 3 batches in rapid succession before I realized they were all infected: an Irish Red Ale, a Saison and a Stout. I use SS conicals, so I did not see the pellicle on top before I drained the first two batches into kegs. However, I suspected something was wrong when I opened the conicals to clean them and saw this white film stuck to the sides of the conicals similar to your pictures. When the stout was ready to keg, I opened the top of the conical first and saw a white, bubble filled pellicle on top of the beer which created a white film on the sides when I drained the conical. All three beers tasted fine after I kegged them, but I let them sit for about a month at room temperature. All three kept building up gas pressure over that time suggesting that some form of fermentation was continuing. After about a month, I put the Irish Red in my keezer and tried it. It was delicious and tasked like a young Flanders Red. Everyone who tried it, loved it. I let the Saison sit for about 10 months before I put it in the keezer. It tasted bland and almost flavorless. After trying samples a few times over the course of a week, I gave up and dumped it. The stout is now almost 1 year old and I'm not sure how long I will wait before I tap it and decide whether to drink it or dump it.

I'm convinced that my infection came from the ball valve on my brew kettle. When I disassembled everything, the only "dirty" part of my gear was that ball valve. since cleaning it, sterilizing all my other parts on the sanitize setting of my dishwasher and replacing all hoses and rubber gaskets, I have not had any new infections. Good luck.

 

[Jayjay1976]

D

Seems to me that every part of the spigot that is exposed to the wort is fully accessible and cleaned/sanitized.

Regardless, I am going to investigate replacing all the plastic will stainless.

Can folks confirm to me that after 10-15 days the top of their wort is 100% crystal clear (minus some remains of Krausen on the sides). If this is what others get, that is what I am going to try and get.

My beers have been pretty clear on top after the kraeusen drops, guess it depends on the recipe. Either way, to really clean your plastic spigots; disassemble all the parts you can, soak for a few hours in bleach solution and then simmer for a bit in water. Let cool completely before re-assembly. I've become a big fan of bleach for sanitizing equipment before storage. A few weeks later when I need to use it, a rinse with hot water followed by a brief star san soak seems to work fine. Any residual chlorine from the soak evaporates during the time the parts sit dry waiting for brew day.

 

[ApolloSimcoe]

Yroc, we have focused on the spigots which is really important. On a side note, how do your fermenters look? Are they scratched at all? Look for big scratches and then hold it up to the light. Do you see any micro scratches? How have you been transferring cooled beer to your fermenters? Take a close look at all of that. Hoses, ball valves, racking canes etc.
I have had many of the issues others have mentioned in this thread. Tons of soaking, deep cleaning and replacing some parts etc should set you back on course.

 

[Yroc]

My gear is never sitting dormant.. I have two batches on the go at all times. It would be nice if I could boil everything, but that would take one huge pot and a ton of water. I will start boiling some of the other stuff and perhaps even pour boiling water into the buckets after clean and before sterilize.

I looked at that 2nd batch this morning. The large floating white spots have mostly disappeared. There is still a film on the top but it shows less in person than it does in the photo below (1st photo is two days ago, 2nd was taken today)

My fermenters are a couple years old. They have no big scratches inside but likely thousands of micro scratches all over the inside surface (only thing ever in them is a plastic spoon and cloths I use when I clean them prior to sterilization.

I have to wonder if this batch will end up looking like the 1st in 8 days or so. Time will tell the tale.

 

[Yroc]

Here is a close up.

 

[Yroc]

I have been reading about fermenting in glass carboy. Does anyone do this for primary?

example: https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B01ANDX4WO/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

 

[Abbas]

I have been reading about fermenting in glass carboy. Does anyone do this for primary?

example: https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B01ANDX4WO/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

I currently use glass and SS fermenters. They work just fine. They are definitely superior to plastic in my opinion although many people swear by using plastic. If you go with glass use caution. I believe there is an ongoing thread of brewers with some serious injuries caused by glass carboys breaking. I'm in the middle of transitioning from glass to SS. It's costly, but SS will last you the rest of your homebrewing career.

 

[Yroc]

I move my brew from the kitchen to the basement... so glass is a concern. I have been looking at SS options. This one came up and seems reasonable. Do you have any suggestions?

 

[Abbas]

I move my brew from the kitchen to the basement... so glass is a concern. I have been looking at SS options. This one came up and seems reasonable. Do you have any suggestions?

View attachment 601292

I’m considering picking one of those up after the holidays are over. From the reviews I’ve seen, they are a solid value SS fermenter.

I have the SS Brewtech Brew Bucket and love it. It is more pricey though.

 

[Yroc]

I was looking at this one as well. It seems to be the top performer for this type of thing. Quite expensive at my local store.