dry hopping in Fermenting Keg...did I do it right?

[Ragman]

So this is my first attempt at fermenting in corny kegs.
I put about 4.5 gallons of wort along with yeast starter into a 5 gallon corny keg, attached gas disconnect with hose running into bottle of star san.
Fermentation seemed to go well as I heard and saw plenty of bubbles and there was some significant blow off as can be seen in the clear tube and the bottle of star san - so much it over flowed out of the bottle.

Anyway, I waited about 10 days (since brew day) and decided it was time to dry hop. I placed a hop bag along with a stainless weight and some fishing line into a star san bath.

I then attached the fishing line to the hop bag, added my hops and walked over to fermenting keg.
I removed the gas disconnect then I pulled the release valve, pretty much nothing came out, then I removed the center lid.
I dropped the hop bag in and re-attached the lid with the fishing line hanging out.
I then connected Co2 and purged twice. I switched to the gas disconnect going to the bottle and I think Im done.

Anyone see anything wrong with the way I did this? I plan to do it again in a few days with more hops and some fresh fruit.

Thanks,

 

[Dr_Jeff]

That's pretty much it.

Just keep in mind, fresh fruit often times has wild yeast on it.

 

[Ragman]

Wild yeast would restart fermentation, yes? What problems could incur from fermentation starting back up?

Is there another way I can add fruit without worrying about wild yeast?

 

[Dr_Jeff]

With wild yeasts, there is no way one can be sure which direction it will go.

What fruit are/were you planning on adding?
What style is the beer?

 

[Ragman]

New England Juicy IPA - added a little corn sugar to up the ABV. Was thinking of Pineapple and orange. Never added fruit before - just trying to get it to be like some of the excellent local beers Ive had. Looking for good body, intense flavor with a high ABV. OG was spot on with my recipe and as long as the fermenting went ok I should hit about 8.3%

 

[Dr_Jeff]

Once the sugar ferments out of orange juice, it leaves the acid, kind of like the taste one gets when you get a bit of throwup in the back of your throat.

Once you cut the skin from the pineapple, remove the core and puree the fruit, it should be find to add in, if that is what you want.

It is usually best to brew a recipe as is, so that you know what it tastes like, then make changes to subsequent batches to see how each change affects the finished product.

 

[odie]

do you plan to serve from the same keg or transfer?

 

[corkybstewart]

Wild yeast would restart fermentation, yes? What problems could incur from fermentation starting back up?

Is there another way I can add fruit without worrying about wild yeast?

One problem is introducing the wild ones into your keg. I'm not sure about the pros/cons of fermenting in a keg but it can be hard to remove wild yeast/bacteria from your keg, and you may not want to infect future batches.
To answer your other question, I used to soak my crabapples in StarSan because my tree was next to my horse pens. It seemed to work, only the brett I added expressed itself.

 

[Ragman]

ewww. I guess Ill stay away from adding orange.

I plan to pressure transfer to another corny. I currently have a floating dip tube with a filter in my fermenting keg but a normal dip tube in the serving keg.

Wild yeast scares me now. I dont want to do anything to jeopardize the batch so maybe I wont add fruit at all.

 

[Golddiggie]

If you want orange flavors, get some dried orange peel (or zest some oranges yourself) and add that.

 

[corkybstewart]

ewww. I guess Ill stay away from adding orange.

I plan to pressure transfer to another corny. I currently have a floating dip tube with a filter in my fermenting keg but a normal dip tube in the serving keg.

Wild yeast scares me now. I dont want to do anything to jeopardize the batch so maybe I wont add fruit at all.

I've done dozens of wild beers, but never fermented one in a corny. Fruit beers are the only ones I add to secondary, that's when I add the wild yeast and or bacteria. I've never had an unintentional wild beer develop because of poor sanitation.

 

[BigDaddyWiz]

So this is my first attempt at fermenting in corny kegs.
I put about 4.5 gallons of wort along with yeast starter into a 5 gallon corny keg, attached gas disconnect with hose running into bottle of star san.
Fermentation seemed to go well as I heard and saw plenty of bubbles and there was some significant blow off as can be seen in the clear tube and the bottle of star san - so much it over flowed out of the bottle.

Anyway, I waited about 10 days (since brew day) and decided it was time to dry hop. I placed a hop bag along with a stainless weight and some fishing line into a star san bath.

I then attached the fishing line to the hop bag, added my hops and walked over to fermenting keg.
I removed the gas disconnect then I pulled the release valve, pretty much nothing came out, then I removed the center lid.
I dropped the hop bag in and re-attached the lid with the fishing line hanging out.
I then connected Co2 and purged twice. I switched to the gas disconnect going to the bottle and I think Im done.

Anyone see anything wrong with the way I did this? I plan to do it again in a few days with more hops and some fresh fruit.

Thanks,

I ferment in Corney's as well. Try using a spunding valve and ferm cap s for foam control. I have found using these will keep krauzen from blowing out of the disconnect. I do use a hose from the spunding valve into a pitcher of Star San solution as well, for that extra bit of safety. I dry hop exactly how you described, with reliving the pressure from the keg before opening and dropping in the hops. With the use of a spunding valve you shouldn't have to put on the co2 until you are ready to package it in your serving keg. I have read that others use a floating dip tube and serve right from the fermenting keg, although I have not gone that route. Something about drinking from a keg with all that trub and yeast on the bottom.

 

[marc1]

So this is my first attempt at fermenting in corny kegs.
I put about 4.5 gallons of wort along with yeast starter into a 5 gallon corny keg, attached gas disconnect with hose running into bottle of star san.
Fermentation seemed to go well as I heard and saw plenty of bubbles and there was some significant blow off as can be seen in the clear tube and the bottle of star san - so much it over flowed out of the bottle.

Anyway, I waited about 10 days (since brew day) and decided it was time to dry hop. I placed a hop bag along with a stainless weight and some fishing line into a star san bath.

I then attached the fishing line to the hop bag, added my hops and walked over to fermenting keg.
I removed the gas disconnect then I pulled the release valve, pretty much nothing came out, then I removed the center lid.
I dropped the hop bag in and re-attached the lid with the fishing line hanging out.
I then connected Co2 and purged twice. I switched to the gas disconnect going to the bottle and I think Im done.

Anyone see anything wrong with the way I did this? I plan to do it again in a few days with more hops and some fresh fruit.

Thanks,

If you want to get rid of O2 for an oxygen sensitive style, you should purge many times at high PSI. Twice, even at 50 PSI, will leave over 10,000 ppm O2 in your headspace. See here for a recent discussion:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/discouraging-first-keg-experience.695011/post-9158477

 

[Cammanron]

Once the sugar ferments out of orange juice, it leaves the acid, kind of like the taste one gets when you get a bit of throwup in the back of your throat.

Once you cut the skin from the pineapple, remove the core and puree the fruit, it should be find to add in, if that is what you want.

It is usually best to brew a recipe as is, so that you know what it tastes like, then make changes to subsequent batches to see how each change affects the finished product.

Can't ypu pasteurize your fruit by boiling in a bag for 10 minutes?

 

[Ragman]

If you want to get rid of O2 for an oxygen sensitive style, you should purge many times at high PSI. Twice, even at 50 PSI, will leave over 10,000 ppm O2 in your headspace. See here for a recent discussion:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/discouraging-first-keg-experience.695011/post-9158477

That seems a little excessive. I mean I have had oxidized beer before but im pretty sure that was happening when I transferred from carboy to keg - tried not to splash at all but somehow beer still got oxygen in it. One of the main reasons I am trying a keg as a fermenter is to lower the risk of oxygen in the beer. I figure with purging and close transfer to co2 purged serving keg that I would pretty much eliminate O2. IF this is not the case - how the hell do breweries add dry hops to beer? Are they purging those giant fermentation containers with 10# of C02 every time?

 

[Dr_Jeff]

They open a hatch on the top of the fermenter and pour them in.

I would guess on a vessel that size, that it is pushing out enough CO2, where it isn't as much as an issue.

 

[marc1]

That seems a little excessive. I mean I have had oxidized beer before but im pretty sure that was happening when I transferred from carboy to keg - tried not to splash at all but somehow beer still got oxygen in it. One of the main reasons I am trying a keg as a fermenter is to lower the risk of oxygen in the beer. I figure with purging and close transfer to co2 purged serving keg that I would pretty much eliminate O2. IF this is not the case - how the hell do breweries add dry hops to beer? Are they purging those giant fermentation containers with 10# of C02 every time?

You can do as you wish - it's your beer!

I'm providing the information because I was very surprised to learn it. If you want to "pretty much eliminate O2" then it's something to consider.

You've already put a lot into reducing O2, the CO2 cost is pretty small compared to all the hops in a NEIPA.

To save CO2, you can purge you serving keg with CO2 from fermentation or by filling with StarSan, purging the tiny headspace, and then pushing the StarSan out with CO2.

Here's a thread where people worked out ways to dry hop with low O2:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/no-oxygen-dry-hopping.663500/
My understanding is that breweries use lots of CO2. I remember Beardy talking about purging a brite tank with massive amounts of CO2 on one of the Brewing Network shows. Some breweries, like Sierra Nevada, capture fermentation CO2 to reuse it.

 

[Ragman]

You can do as you wish - it's your beer!

I'm providing the information because I was very surprised to learn it. If you want to "pretty much eliminate O2" then it's something to consider.

You've already put a lot into reducing O2, the CO2 cost is pretty small compared to all the hops in a NEIPA.

To save CO2, you can purge you serving keg with CO2 from fermentation or by filling with StarSan, purging the tiny headspace, and then pushing the StarSan out with CO2.

Here's a thread where people worked out ways to dry hop with low O2:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/no-oxygen-dry-hopping.663500/
My understanding is that breweries use lots of CO2. I remember Beardy talking about purging a brite tank with massive amounts of CO2 on one of the Brewing Network shows. Some breweries, like Sierra Nevada, capture fermentation CO2 to reuse it.

Dont get me wrong, I really appreciate the advice. Im just trying to wrap my head around all of this as it is pretty new to me.
What I was planning to do it this.
I have a corny keg that I have cleaned and sanitized and currently has about 4 gallons of star san mix in it now.
I was planning to dump the star san, put the lid on and connect C02 and purge a few times.
Then I was going to do a closed transfer from fermenting keg to serving keg.

Would that way use more or less C02 that the method you described? Only reason I ask is C02 isnt very cheap - My tank needs to be certified before I can have it refilled so it will be close to $50-$60 to fill. Not sure how much I have left as I dont really trust the gauge. It hasnt moved from halfway full since I fisrt started using it.

 

[marc1]

Dont get me wrong, I really appreciate the advice. Im just trying to wrap my head around all of this as it is pretty new to me.
What I was planning to do it this.
I have a corny keg that I have cleaned and sanitized and currently has about 4 gallons of star san mix in it now.
I was planning to dump the star san, put the lid on and connect C02 and purge a few times.
Then I was going to do a closed transfer from fermenting keg to serving keg.

Would that way use more or less C02 that the method you described? Only reason I ask is C02 isnt very cheap - My tank needs to be certified before I can have it refilled so it will be close to $50-$60 to fill. Not sure how much I have left as I dont really trust the gauge. It hasnt moved from halfway full since I fisrt started using it.

Your method would use much more CO2 to get O2 levels down.
If you dump the StarSan, the you have to purge the entire volume of the keg. This uses lots of CO2.
If you fill the keg to the top, you only have the few ounces under the lid to purge, then you can push all the StarSan out under low pressure.

Let's say you purge the full keg 5x at 30PSI. You've used 5 gallons (128 ounces of volume each) x 5 purges = 3200 oz of volume purged at 30PSI. It gets you 800PPM O2 final, which is better than nothing but not ideal.

If you purge the 3 oz headspace 12x at 30 PSI, you've 3oz x 12 purges = 36oz of volume at 30PSI. Which would get you to 0.34PPM O2. Which is almost 100-fold less CO2 for a 2300-fold better O2 reduction. Then you're going to push out the liquid, but that can be done at low pressure (use a short line) so shouldn't use too much more if you are patient and want to conserve. It's going to use a heck of a lot less than even one full purge at 30PSI. This will also dilute out the PPM of O2 even more.

The gauge on your tank shows the pressure. Since most of the CO2 in your tank is liquid, the pressure is that of the CO2 in your tank headspace that isn't liquid. It won't change until you run out of liquid in the tank. You can tell how much you have left by weighing it. There should be a tare weight on the tank. Weigh you tank (without the regulator) and then subtract the tare weight, and that will tell you how many pounds you have left.

If you are curious, you can weigh your tank afterwards with the regulator hooked up, and then (with a decent scale) you can see how much CO2 you are using by weight from various purges.

 

[Ragman]

Your method would use much more CO2 to get O2 levels down.
If you dump the StarSan, the you have to purge the entire volume of the keg. This uses lots of CO2.
If you fill the keg to the top, you only have the few ounces under the lid to purge, then you can push all the StarSan out under low pressure.

Let's say you purge the full keg 5x at 30PSI. You've used 5 gallons (128 ounces of volume each) x 5 purges = 3200 oz of volume purged at 30PSI. It gets you 800PPM O2 final, which is better than nothing but not ideal.

If you purge the 3 oz headspace 12x at 30 PSI, you've 3oz x 12 purges = 36oz of volume at 30PSI. Which would get you to 0.34PPM O2. Which is almost 100-fold less CO2 for a 2300-fold better O2 reduction. Then you're going to push out the liquid, but that can be done at low pressure (use a short line) so shouldn't use too much more if you are patient and want to conserve. It's going to use a heck of a lot less than even one full purge at 30PSI. This will also dilute out the PPM of O2 even more.

The gauge on your tank shows the pressure. Since most of the CO2 in your tank is liquid, the pressure is that of the CO2 in your tank headspace that isn't liquid. It won't change until you run out of liquid in the tank. You can tell how much you have left by weighing it. There should be a tare weight on the tank. Weigh you tank (without the regulator) and then subtract the tare weight, and that will tell you how many pounds you have left.

If you are curious, you can weigh your tank afterwards with the regulator hooked up, and then (with a decent scale) you can see how much CO2 you are using by weight from various purges.

Thank you so much - I will use your method for purging the serving kegs.

 

[Ragman]

Ugh - so I did my 2nd dry hop addition this morning and the o-ring around the center lid fell in the brew. I had another o -ring so I just used anothe but now I have the original o-ring sitting in my beer for the next couple days before I cold crash and transfer. Should I be concerned? The o-ring was sanitized before I started fermentation but I had also put keg lube on it.

 

[marc1]

Ugh - so I did my 2nd dry hop addition this morning and the o-ring around the center lid fell in the brew. I had another o -ring so I just used anothe but now I have the original o-ring sitting in my beer for the next couple days before I cold crash and transfer. Should I be concerned? The o-ring was sanitized before I started fermentation but I had also put keg lube on it.

It should be fine.

 

[Ragman]

Cool - one thing I do notice about fermenting in the kegs is when I go to add dry hops I get one helluva big whiff of beer - much more than I did with my carboys lol

 

[Ragman]

 

[marc1]

How does it taste?

 

[Ragman]

Really good. Would've liked it to be a little more fruit forward but still getting nice notes of melon and pineapple. Very little bitter. Waiting for my brew buddies to come have a taste but others I have given some to say its probably the best Ive made yet.
Previous batches have been plagued with oxidization and would also tend to leave me a little gassy. Not this batch tho.

 

[marc1]

Really good. Would've liked it to be a little more fruit forward but still getting nice notes of melon and pineapple. Very little bitter. Waiting for my brew buddies to come have a taste but others I have given some to say its probably the best Ive made yet.
Previous batches have been plagued with oxidization and would also tend to leave me a little gassy. Not this batch tho.

Awesome! Thanks for the update!

 

[BeerFst]

Late to the table here but when I dry hop (just did it tonight) I keep the co2 on and flowing at a few psi. Pros do it along the Same way but their headspace to volume ratio is way better than even a full corny. Then I purge a few times when it’s all done. I’m sure I could do better with multiple 30psi purges as noted above.

also I do the same blowoff tube to Star San for fermentation but when dry hopping I leave it sealed.

 

[Ragman]

How do you add dry hops and keep the Co2 on?

 

[BeerFst]

Hook up co2, pull prv and rotate 90 so it stays open. Push lid in, drop hops, close lid. Let it keep flowing thru prv for a moment. Close prv, increase pressure, purge a few times. Remove gas

 

[odie]

Hook up co2, pull prv and rotate 90 so it stays open. Push lid in, drop hops, close lid. Let it keep flowing thru prv for a moment. Close prv, increase pressure, purge a few times. Remove gas

sounds like a solid procedure to me.

 

[Ragman]

hmm, gonna have to try that method next time.

 

[Docod44]

Ugh - so I did my 2nd dry hop addition this morning and the o-ring around the center lid fell in the brew. I had another o -ring so I just used anothe but now I have the original o-ring sitting in my beer for the next couple days before I cold crash and transfer. Should I be concerned? The o-ring was sanitized before I started fermentation but I had also put keg lube on it.

I had this happen when fermenting a DIPA in a corny keg last week while adding my first dry hop charge. FYI I added a third of my dry hops in the first addition at high krausen and I already had fermcap in the wort. Not only did I lose my o-ring due to carelessness, but my hop addition caused my wort to fountain up and coat the walls of my ferm chamber despite the use of fermcap. I had a backup o-ring and I left the old one in the beer until it was finished and I transferred it to a clean serving keg. No harm done leaving it in there!

 

[Knightshade]

Hook up co2, pull prv and rotate 90 so it stays open. Push lid in, drop hops, close lid. Let it keep flowing thru prv for a moment. Close prv, increase pressure, purge a few times. Remove gas

Did this the other day, but didn't think about leaving the PRV open when I put it back on, good tip. What I was kind of wondering to myself though was...how high should the PSI during the dry hop add? I think I had it around 3'ish, just enough where I could barely hear it pushing gas in...?

 

[BeerFst]

Did this the other day, but didn't think about leaving the PRV open when I put it back on, good tip. What I was kind of wondering to myself though was...how high should the PSI during the dry hop add? I think I had it around 3'ish, just enough where I could barely hear it pushing gas in...?

Yeah that’s what I leave it as. I actually use this little mini regulator and it kinda sits at zero when it’s wide open like that cause pressure can’t build. But you’ll know you’re too high if you can’t press the lid in with the prv open

 

[Knightshade]

Yeah that’s what I leave it as. I actually use this little mini regulator and it kinda sits at zero when it’s wide open like that cause pressure can’t build. But you’ll know you’re too high if you can’t press the lid in with the prv open

That makes sense. I'm using a duo tight mini regulator that reads 0-60 and the marks are so dang small that they're kinda hard to read. I do the hearing test where I'll just push the gas poppet in a bit and turn up the gas just to the point where I can hear it flowing.