Dry 9% (extract) IPA - 20% dextrose okay?

[normzone]

As always, thanks for all of your contributions to my learning - I've made some sad beers in the past, but the ratio of good beers is growing since I met you folks.

I'm looking for a Port Brewing Mongo IPA kind of result. They're developing 8.5% ABV, I'm aiming for a nominal 9%.

Tentative formulation at this stage is 8.5 lbs DME light and 2.5 lbs dextrose.

I will have to check my hops inventory before I go much further, but at the moment I'm concerned about the dextrose ratio. It's about 20% of my total fermentables - is this acceptable? I've read some contradictory statements here.

All counsel appreciated -
normzone

 

[weirdboy]

The typical worry that you see on homebrew forums, and in some books, is about the beer being too "cidery" if you use too much sugar. If you pitch adequate amounts of yeast and carefully control fermentation, however, this isn't really much of a worry. In fact it's not hard to find any number of Belgian Tripels with a similar ratio of sugar in them.

That being said, I think 20% is likely too much and will result in a much drier beer than you intend. I would shoot more in the 7-10% range, personally. Also, it is a personal preference, but I prefer to add the sugar *after* primary fermentation is starting to wind down. I make my wort sans sugar, let it ferment out, then I mix up a simple sugar, let it cool down, and add that to the fermenter. This allows the yeast to work on the more complex sugars first. If you get them metabolizing the simple sugars right away, they can actually mutate such that they are no longer able to ferment the more complex sugars as effectively. At least, that is according to Yeast and some other sources.


Also it's been a while since I've had a Mongo, but I seem to recall it having a bit more color than you're likely to get with just light DME and sugar. Not that you need to reproduce one exactly, of course. Just thought I'd mention it.

 

[normzone]

Much thanks, [weirdboy].

I've been getting protests of too much sweetness in our beers from my wife, and as I so often do I thought I'd swing all the way over to the other end of the spectrum, which may be an overreaction.

I've been using 1 1/2 or 2 lbs of crystal 15 as a steeping grain, and saw some commentary here that less of that would also dry things up, something in the 1/2 lb range.

My beers suffer from my tendency to get carried away - if some is good, surely twice as much is even better!

I'd heard of adding simple sugars late, but no rationale for why. Thank you.

 

[WoodlandBrew]

How about a roasted malt instead of crystal for color? Or maybe light chocolate or smoked?

 

[normzone]

Much thanks, [woodlandbrew].

Back in the eighties in my first brewing incarnation when there was not much good beer available and everything I made was better than what i could buy I reallly enjoyed malt flavors.

Now in my second brewing incarnation after a long hiatus I find my palate has little interest in malt flavors - I'm primarily a hop head. I'd be willing to experiment but what would be an entry level roasted malt that would be at low risk of triggering my malt gag reflex?

 

[weirdboy]

Much thanks, [weirdboy].

I've been getting protests of too much sweetness in our beers from my wife, and as I so often do I thought I'd swing all the way over to the other end of the spectrum, which may be an overreaction.

I've been using 1 1/2 or 2 lbs of crystal 15 as a steeping grain, and saw some commentary here that less of that would also dry things up, something in the 1/2 lb range.

My beers suffer from my tendency to get carried away - if some is good, surely twice as much is even better!

I'd heard of adding simple sugars late, but no rationale for why. Thank you.

You could most certainly cut down on the crystal 15 if you are looking for a drier finish; although 1.5 lbs in a typical 9% ABV recipe is about 10% or less I'd think. Now beersmith or other recipe design software might not tell you 10% for that (I'm not sure) But that is only because DME weighs less than an equivalent amount of grain. 10% isn't unreasonable as a general rule, but if you are shooting for drier, cutting down on the crystal certainly helps, especially for extract recipes where you cannot really dial in the mash temperature to help control more. There are a lot of factors involved in recipe design, so it takes a while to get a feel for what qualities each aspect contributes to the beer.

 

[WoodlandBrew]

A simple roasted malt like "special roast" or "roasted barley" would probably be a good place to start. They don't add a whole lot of flavor, but will change the color. If you want something more interesting, then a few ounces of the smoked would make an interesting beer. I think Stone makes a smoked porter that is way over the top.

 

[bobbrews]

You'll be good with 10-15% corn sugar added at flameout or high krausen. I've done this before a couple times with extract DIPAs and had great results. Keep the Crystal 15 below 6% of the grist. Use San Diego Super or WLP001 and make a big nasty starter. Primary for 30 days @ 64-68 F including the dryhop.

 

[normzone]

A simple roasted malt like "special roast" or "roasted barley" would probably be a good place to start. They don't add a whole lot of flavor, but will change the color. If you want something more interesting, then a few ounces of the smoked would make an interesting beer. I think Stone makes a smoked porter that is way over the top.

Thank you [WoodlandBrew]. Stone does go a little OTT.

[bobbrews], thank you as well. Thirty days total fermentation cycle? That's another window I've been trying to wrap my head around. In my bottling days I was taking six to eight weeks from kettle to glass, but since I began kegging (five gallon sankes) I've been experimenting with the other extreme - I've made five day IPA. My wife says it tastes yeasty, and I am sure it should with so short a cycle.

Of course, that's to fill a dry gap in the pipeline. Since I'm such a hophead, what is the optimal fermentation dwell time? This may be grist for another thread, but all opinions eagerly welcomed.

 

[bobbrews]

You'll have alcohol in the first 3-5 days of fermentation, but it won't be smooth. You'll typically hear about the 3-4 week conditioning period before priming/carbing an ale. This allows for reabsorption of the nasty precursor biproducts, that the yeast **** out into your beer, rid by the yeast themselves with a little more conditioning time.