Double Oktoberfest? Anyone? Anyone?

[MidnightFarmer]

Greetings!

We're planning on doing a double Oktoberfest and wondering if anyone has any advice. We using the recipe from Brewing Classic Styles as a baseline (tripling everything), and even though the book says several times not to up the ABV, to keep it sessionable, blah blah blah, we're going to go for it anyway :rockin:

So, that being said, this is what we're looking at for 10 gallons:

15 lbs Pilsner
12 lbs Munich
9 lbs Vienna
2 lbs Cara-Munich 60

4.5 oz Hallertau 90 min
1.5 oz Hallertau 20 min

Shooting for 9% ABV when all said and done. Thoughts?

 

[beersk]

How 'bout NO?!

 

[cheezydemon3]

So you triple everything and call it a double???

It sounds fine, except that a "Dubbel" is a very different beer, and the "double" in IPA comes from the IIPA (double "I" PA) in Imperial India Pale Ale.

Imperial Marzen has a much better ring to it. Marzen is beer, oktoberfest is a festival......with beer.....in September

Are you kegging this?

 

[Misplaced_Canuck]

So you triple everything and call it a double???

It sounds fine, except that a "Dubbel" is a very different beer, and the "double" in IPA comes from the IIPA (double "I" PA) in Imperial India Pale Ale.

Imperial Marzen has a much better ring to it. Marzen is beer, oktoberfest is a festival......with beer.....in September

Are you kegging this?

Königer Marzen.

Personally I'd just increase the amount of base pilsener malt. Or even add two-row to make it to the 9% level.

MC

 

[cheezydemon3]

AH! Nice

 

[Yooper]

Too much crystal malt- when you double the grainbill, don't double the crystal malt. That much crystal malt in a 10 gallon batch of malty beer would make my teeth hurt.

You probably don't have to triple the hops, and instead just balance the malty with enough hops to counteract the additional malt. I'd try to keep the SG/IBU ratio about the same for bitterness, and keep the same amount of flavor hops in the original batch (as you probably don't want triple the flavor hops in a the batch).

I still think it needs work (why not just make a bigger beer from the ground up?) but it'll be undrinkable the way you have it.

 

[Hammy71]

Yeah, it will be quite the malt bomb. Not my cup of tea for sure.

 

[kingwood-kid]

I think he's tripling the grain and hops and just doubling the batch size, you bunch of schweinehunds. Octoberfest-and-a-half? 2lbs of cara-Munich in 10 gallons doesn't sound ludicrous, except that the FG will already be so high, and there's all that Munich. If you stuck with the original grain bill, then added around 20lbs of pils and/or Vienna, you'd get the gravity in the right range and keep the color at the darker end of the Octoberfest spectrum. I'm 100% with our Frau Administrator on the hopping. I don't think that it'd be ready by late-September, but it has a German Winter Warmer vibe anyway.

 

[MidnightFarmer]

Wow! Thanks for the feedback everyone, and for the great suggestions.

This is my first time doubling a recipe, so clearly a lot to learn. Based off your suggestions, we're going to boost the pilsner malt, leave the crystal alone, and make sure the SG/IBU ratio is consistent.

This beer will be kegged and love Imperial Marzen as the style suggestion. Thanks again everyone - much appreciated!!!!!!!

 

[Misplaced_Canuck]

Correcting myself: Königliche Märzen (royal marzen), or Kaiserlichen Märzen (imperial marzen).

MC

 

[cheezydemon3]

Correcting myself: Königliche Märzen (royal marzen), or Kaiserlichen Märzen (imperial marzen).

MC

Awesome beer nerdship my friend!

Kaiser lickin Marzen it is!!!

 

[MidnightFarmer]

Kaiser Lickin' Marzen!!! Bwahahahahah!!!! YESSSSSSS.

Now I know where to go to get my recipe names as well

 

[cheezydemon3]

Kaiser Lickin' Marzen!!! Bwahahahahah!!!! YESSSSSSS.

Now I know where to go to get my recipe names as well

See???? Noob question of brewing MADNESS ends in pure awesomeness!!!

 

[MidnightFarmer]

While we're on the subject, since I'm clearly a noob at creating imperial versions of recipes, anyone recommend any good reading on this subject, or for scaling up? Cheers!

 

[cheezydemon3]

Yes......read this.

Get brewing software.......find a recipe you like......up the base malt until it hits the ABV you want, up specialty grains until the SRM is the same as what the unscaled recipe is, up the hops until the IBU's match the original recipe.

For IIPA's, generally the IBU's are higher than the average IPA because HOPS are the focus of that style.

 

[MidnightFarmer]

I've got BeerTools and now I know how to use 'em! Up the ABV, work the SRM and tweak the IBU's - got it! Thansk man!

 

[cheezydemon3]

Also, as I already see that you have no fear (nor do I...lol) You can obviously adjust the recipe however the eff you want to.

I have made a caramel amber with enough crystal to "make (yooper's) teeth hurt" that my BMC friends and....well....girls (no other way to put it) LOVED. Truth be told, I liked it too.

So SRM, IBU's, etc are all a good starting point, but I suggest experimenting with different ingredients until you brew like you cook. Instead of "a pinch of salt, a little paprika, some cumin" It comes out "9 lbs of pale 2 row, a little crystal 10, some crystal 60, a little munich" with no recipe per se.

Recipes are great, but you won't invent the next great beer following someone else's recipe!

 

[ScottRMitch]

Definitely some great recommendations in this thread. If it was me, I would also mash super low, 146.

 

[MidnightFarmer]

Mashing at say 146 would make the wort much more fermentable, correct? And girls always love caramel and crystals anyway, right?

This is what I've plugged into BeerTools and am going to shoot for:

Imperial Kaiser Lickin' Marzen - 10 gallons
25 lbs 2-row
4 lbs Munich I
5 lbs Bohemian Pils
3 lbs Vienna
1 lb CaraMunich 60

2 oz Pacifica @ 90 min
1 oz Pacifica @ 20 min
(using Pacifica as it's basically NZ Hallertau and we have some on hand)

2L Kolsch yeast starter (no ability to lager, Kolsch as a compromise yeast (blend of lager/ale))

Shooting for 1.090 OG and 9% ABV.

 

[funnycreature]

2L Kolsch yeast starter (no ability to lager, Kolsch as a compromise yeast (blend of lager/ale))

Shooting for 1.090 OG and 9% ABV.

Someone can correct me but I don't think that Kölsch yeast is a blend of lager and ale. It's an ale yeast that is used at close-to-lager temps. BUT - there is a lager/ale blend (WLP080).

 

[mrphillips]

Sensible, Shmensible - brew that beer and let everything else be damned! It does seem like I'd be a real monster, but how many times have you expected one type of flavor/character, and got something you NEVER expected? I think I would try a 5 or even 3 gallon batch before the big'boy 10 gallon batch...just in case the experiment goes a little funny and the monster turns on its owner.

As far as names, what about FRANKENFEST or KALASHNI-MALT or THE MONSTER FROM THE MALTY LAGOON?

Just some thoughts. Haha.

 

[motorneuron]

Koelsch is just a clean ale yeast, yeah, and you can ferment it quite cool for an ale yeast (even in the high 50s). You could also use a Scottish or American yeast that goes into the high 50s, if possible, to create something lageroid. Or you could use California lager yeast (the steam beer stuff), which though a lager strain can handle the mid-60s. With ice as your friend, any of those could give you a pretty clean profile.

 

[ScottRMitch]

Mashing at say 146 would make the wort much more fermentable, correct?

Correct, so you'll end up with a thinner body but it's usually better for higher ABV versions of beers that are supposed to have medium bodies. Personally I even like my normal Marzens with a light body.

 

[MidnightFarmer]

You are correct! Thank you for that - couldn't remember which was the blend, which wasn't. We're using Wyeast 2565.

 

[MidnightFarmer]

Sensible, Shmensible - brew that beer and let everything else be damned! It does seem like I'd be a real monster, but how many times have you expected one type of flavor/character, and got something you NEVER expected? I think I would try a 5 or even 3 gallon batch before the big'boy 10 gallon batch...just in case the experiment goes a little funny and the monster turns on its owner.

As far as names, what about FRANKENFEST or KALASHNI-MALT or THE MONSTER FROM THE MALTY LAGOON?

Just some thoughts. Haha.

Having the monster turn on its owner reminds me of the "Dunwich Horror" story by HP Lovecraft, maybe we'll call it the Dunwich Slayer

 

[mrphillips]

"Having the monster turn on its owner reminds me of the "Dunwich Horror" story by HP Lovecraft, maybe we'll call it the Dunwich Slayer"

Fantastic name! As every homebrewer knows, there is nothing more important than a wicked beer name. Ingredients, sanitation, flavor...ALL are secondary to a bitchin' name! Hahaha.

 

[cheezydemon3]

Kaiser Lickin Marzen didn't get it??

Well, epic as it is, it is a little bizarre if you didn't see the origin.

 

[kingwood-kid]

I vote for Kaiser Lickin Schweinehund. Who wouldn't drink Imperial Pigdog? The potential of the label art is unlimited.