Does this look like Brett contamination?

[bairdo]

I'm now up to 6 all grain batches. All of which taste bad Some still drinkable but this last batch is not. I have no experience tasting off flavours but my mate who brews reckoned it tasted bitter/sour/just plain awful and smelt bad too.

I dropped in to a brew pub yesterday to drink some of what I can't seem to make yet and it came up that I was fermenting in an old fridge. He immediately mentioned Brett contamination suggesting that's probably where my off taste is coming from. I should also mention my fridge is under the house - and Auckland is fairly humid most of the time.

In the latest batch (epic pale ale clone) 3-4 bottles had a ring of scum in the neck and had a fair amount of funkiness going on at the bottom of the bottle. When I opened these bottles they volcano'd everywhere. However bottles without the scum ring open without issues - still taste like arse though.

Here is a pic of one of those bottles before it was opened.

The neck
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/photo/brett-64008.html

The bottom
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/photo/brett-64009.html

I have a brew fermenting right now which as of last night was moved out of the fridge under the house and into the vacuum cleaner cupboard inside. It won't have a nice temp controlled fermentation but hopefully its drinkable this time!

As it happens one of my best mates is food scientist and his wife knows a fair bit about food hygiene. I gave them a call last night about all this. He said clean the fridge with bleach (or pure alcohol if you can get it).. like really clean it, then clean it again and move it into the garage (garage is warm dry) and install a computer fan in it - apparently all cold storage rooms/fridges have a fan in them to prevent bacteria action. The other thing he said he would do is spray some starsan around the inside of the fridge before putting the fermenter in it - just to be extra sure.

Any thoughts?

 

[obie]

you have a lot of sediment in those bottles. do you secondary or cold crash?

 

[flars]

How about the details on your last batch. Volume, time to chill to pitch temp, yeast, yeast starter, fermentation temp, time in primary, and etc.

 

[SuliBrew]

wow, never seen that much sediment even in sours. you may want to post a little more detail on your processes. You may have just bottled before the beer was ready to bottle and fermentation complete.

 

[bairdo]

The excessive sediment you see in the pic was only in 3 or 4 bottles.

Fermentation schedule
- 10 days at 19deg,
- Dry hopped and 5 more days at 19
- Dry hopped and crash cooled for 5 days.

On bottling day I made up a priming solution with wort (a cup or less) collected on brew day and 110g (from memory) of dextrose sugar. The solution was boiled for a few mins then cooled and added to the bottling fermenter. I then transferred from the primary into it by auto siphon.

I then carried the fermenter into the house and bottled it.

 

[bairdo]

How about the details on your last batch. Volume, time to chill to pitch temp, yeast, yeast starter, fermentation temp, time in primary, and etc.

I have a blichmann plate chiller - have not timed it but say 20mins to 20deg
Wyeast - American Ale II 1272 smack pack
Pitched at 20 deg
Fermentation info is on the previous post

The wort I used for priming (mentioned in the previous post) is stored in the fridge during fermentation. Is that an issue? perhaps I should be freezing it?

 

[bairdo]

How about the details on your last batch. Volume, time to chill to pitch temp, yeast, yeast starter, fermentation temp, time in primary, and etc.

Sorry I missed volume - was 20L batch (in the fermenter). It was bubbling away within 6 hours of pitching.

 

[bairdo]

Has anyone had trouble with Brettanomyces?

 

[SmokeyMcBong]

does the beer taste bad on bottling day? or only after bottle conditioning?

 

[aidan]

The first suspicion that I have is that you are using saved wort for priming - I wouldn't trust it - something may have taken hold while it was in the fridge and a short boil may not have killed it completely. I would eliminate that potential risk and just prime with a water sugar mixture, bolied & cooled.

Also when you are racking from primary to bottling bucket try to avoid stirring up sediment - it won't be a source of contamination but excessive sediment can cause gushers.

Not so sure about the fridge theory - even if it were harbouring bacteria, I can't see how it would get into your fermenter if it is sealed with airlock.

 

[bairdo]

The first suspicion that I have is that you are using saved wort for priming - I wouldn't trust it - something may have taken hold while it was in the fridge and a short boil may not have killed it completely. I would eliminate that potential risk and just prime with a water sugar mixture, bolied & cooled.

Also when you are racking from primary to bottling bucket try to avoid stirring up sediment - it won't be a source of contamination but excessive sediment can cause gushers.

Not so sure about the fridge theory - even if it were harbouring bacteria, I can't see how it would get into your fermenter if it is sealed with airlock.

I bottled 7 days ago and on that day it smelt and tasted great, I was very hopeful that this one would be good! But I popped a bottle last night and I could not smell the hops (IPA), maybe smelt a little stale/a distant wiff of old socks (perhaps) plus it tasted a bit off - I am no good at describing off flavors so I'm going to do a tasting later today with a couple of other brewers to try and pin point the off flavor. Very frustrating.

As it happens this batch I did as you suggested, used water (filtered) for the priming solution. Boiled the water and sugar for 3 mins then cooled it, poured it in bottom of bottling fermenter and started the transfer.

I am very careful when transferring. The fermenter doesn't get moved. I converted the small airlock hole to big hole with a bung so I could siphon without disturbing the sediment when opening the lid. Here's a pic.
http://cdn.homebrewtalk.com/images/1/6/7/0/6/6/img_2772-64143.jpg

 

[bairdo]

does the beer taste bad on bottling day? or only after bottle conditioning?

On bottling day the latest batch it tasted and smelt great. And now, 7 days later I can already tell its another broken beer :/ (more info in the previous reply)

On thursday I'm going on an all day IPA brewing course with a highly regarded brewer. I'm taking samples for him to taste so hopefully I'll know more soon.

 

[bairdo]

Not so sure about the fridge theory - even if it were harbouring bacteria, I can't see how it would get into your fermenter if it is sealed with airlock.

Dry hopping?

 

[aidan]

Your fermenter looks like it's fairly new but what do you use for a bottling bucket? Just wondering if it could be harbouring something - might be possible if it was older scratched plastic. Are you recycling yeast or using new yeast everytime? In that photo showing your siphon, what keeps it off the bottom? I like that idea of the larger bung on fermenter lid by the way.

 

[bairdo]

Another fermenter the same as the one in pic. Same age. New condition. The auto-syphon is designed to rest on the bottom - it draws from 1/2" or more above where it rests and draws from above


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[bairdo]

New yeast. Was US05 in latest batch. Not rehydrated. Just tipped it in and put the bung on - and checked it was sealed properly


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[bairdo]

I soaked the fermenter in bleach / water solution before using it. I rinsed with tap water right before transferring into it. Same with the bottles. 1.5ml per 2L water


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[aidan]

Fermenter's shouldn't be the issue in that case as long as you haven't scratched insides with abrasive scrub and assuming you take the gaskets out to clean and sanitise them. So that leaves the saved wort for priming, as the primary suspect in my eyes.

 

[bairdo]

Fermenter's shouldn't be the issue in that case as long as you haven't scratched insides with abrasive scrub and assuming you take the gaskets out to clean and sanitise them. So that leaves the saved wort for priming, as the primary suspect in my eyes.

Actually one of my fermenters has a gash on the bottom (inside) smack bang in the middle - a manufacturing fault. I figured the pink bottle wash would sort out any nasties? or PBW which I used for the soak before last. I used water for priming the latest brew and pretty sure its going to have the same contamination based on yesterdays tasting.

 

[Rdom]

How does the tubing on the auto siphon look? When did you last change it?
The saved wort was also my first thought.

 

[bairdo]

How does the tubing on the auto siphon look? When did you last change it?
The saved wort was also my first thought.

http://cdn.homebrewtalk.com/images/1/6/7/0/6/6/img_2772-64143.jpg
I've only used it 6 times so its basically new. I suck up pick bottle wash into it and let it sit for 10 mins or more then rinse. But worth giving it an extra clean - l suppose it could be that! On the last bottling day I had it sitting in the bottling fermenter which was full to the brim with a water/bleach mix - i siphoned the water through and let it sit in there for an hour or more.

I'll replace the fermenter with the gash (see previous post) and give the auto siphon a really good soak in bottle wash. And hope for the best... again!

 

[bairdo]

Your fermenter looks like it's fairly new but what do you use for a bottling bucket? Just wondering if it could be harbouring something - might be possible if it was older scratched plastic. Are you recycling yeast or using new yeast everytime? In that photo showing your siphon, what keeps it off the bottom? I like that idea of the larger bung on fermenter lid by the way.

Just noticed you're in Nelson. I was down there a couple of weekends ago for a mates wedding (honest laywer). And have done a decent amount of tramping down that way. I love visiting the place, I feel relaxed just getting off the plane.

 

[bairdo]

Just wondering if it could be harbouring something - might be possible if it was older scratched plastic.

Just went through photos of bottling day and I see I used the fermenter with gash for fermentation ie. I used the non scratched one for bottling. Given it tasted good on bottling day do you think its safe to assume that the fermenter is not the issue?