Does souring have an end point?

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stz

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Hello HBT.
I added a large handful of crushed grain to 25L of 1.061 wort (100% pale malt) which has been brought to 80C for about 30 minutes then left to cool somewhat on wednesday night. I pushed co2 through with an airstone for a minute or two, capped it quickly with an airlock and I've kept it at 36C (96F). I tasted it after 24 hours and got grain, honey and moderately sharp lemon. In my head it needed another day before getting worried (I've made sours in the past which were not sour enough). It has very minor signs of yeast fermentation.

I checked it with a pH meter after 48 hours and it reads 3.03. It tastes pleasantly zingy, sweet and less grainy. It has slightly more signs of yeast fermentation, no off flavours. I intend to boil it tomorrow morning (60 hours). I've put it outside in the garage where it'll likely stay at 5-6C until then in the hope of slowing or stopping activity.

Clearly I've no idea what is working away in there, but is it likely to drop further? I thought these things tended to stop themselves below 3.2 anyway? Will the temperature change slow any further changes or will it potentially do something bad? I'd hate to promote the growth of something undesirable overnight.

Finally, what to do with it? I intended to hop it to about 6 ibu's with a scant pinch of whatever I've to hand during the boil and then ferment with pureed lemons and limes (5 of each). Based on the pH as is, these are likely to be a step too sour, I'm wondering what else I can do to add interest, hops will likely be unwelcome, dry hops maybe? Also wondering if I can just water it down a little to reduce to sourness in the kettle? It has quite a high OG so no problem losing a few points.
 
I wouldn't judge the total sourness until that yeast ferment is done, because the sugars in the mix could hide the real tartness. I would save any fruit until secondary as well, for the same reason.

If it's too sour after yeast fermentation, you could always blend with another beer.
 
I add 5 IBU Saaz hops to my kettle sours and find the result quite delicious (my last one I soured to pH 3.08).

I use US-05 and pick up notes of lemon, berries, melon, and peach.

I'd suggest fermenting it without fruit and give it a chance on its own. You wouldn't want to add fruit to an undesirable beer anyway.

If it's too sour for your taste, watering it down or blending are both fine options. Do some trials before modifying the whole batch. I agree with bucketnative 100% on both points.

Cooling it was a good idea & will slow the wild bacteria and any yeast present. How low the pH drops is dependent on the species/strain(s) of Lacto since they will have differing tolerance to acid (just like different yeast have different alcohol tolerances).
 
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Brew day went fine. Only did a 30 minute boil because didn't need to concentrate anything through evaporation and my only hop addition was some motetuka at whirlpool prior to collection. Didn't seem to produce any/much trub? I fined in the boil, but didn't get hot break? Quite an aggressive boil too because this was half my usual batch size so lots of heat capacity, lots of head space. Weird.

Pitched quite a lot of hydrated US05 at 19C, expected it to take off quite well, but don't have any activity today. Encountered lag phases before, but in uncharted territory here!
 
Unfortunately I've been unable to leave it alone as I've no airlock activity and no pressure building in the fermenter whatsoever. I've opened it and have no detectable co2 so I've closed the fermenter and shook it a few times and still no co2 fizz or signs of fermentation. I'll mix up a couple of packets and get positive activity on a stirplate and pitch that later on. I've had lag phases extend 48 hours before, but usually can detect co2 evolution even if I can't see activity.
 
Sounds ok but I would probably just wait a few more days.

What was your post-boil gravity? I'd probably shoot for pitching around 1.5M cells per mL per degree Plato.

Since you had wild yeast activity it's theoretically possible it might have produced a killer factor... Wild microbes are unpredictable.

BTW Lacto is known to degrade foam proteins, which explains the lack of hot break.
 
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Post boil was actually 1.067 though I didn't believe it at the time. I didn't take a pre boil. I'm going to have to cast doubt on either the initial gravity (61, probably correct) before souring or the read taken post boil (home brew saccharometer!). While I had scant signs of yeast fermentation during souring, I didn't detect alcohol or notice much boiling off. I took a sample post boil to take to work tomorrow where I'll test pH etc.

Pitch. Assumed 200b cells per packet x 6 packets @ 75% viability. 9*10^11 total. 3x10^6 per ml per degree plato. So lots of yeast!
 
Took off fine the next day. Ferment slowed significantly after 48 hours. Dry hopped with 5g/L galaxy, brought the temperature up to 23C and let it chug away another two days. Currently on chill, plan to keg tomorrow. Post boil SG 67, pH 3.47. Sample prior to chilling PG 14, pH 3.39. Approx 80% atten with US05.
 

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