Does bottling kill/inhibit a lacto infection?

[bionara]

Does bottling kill/inhibit a lacto infection? Or does this fit the brewer's bomb-making blueprints to a T?

If you notice/suspect/even confirm an early lacto infection, will bottling it prevent growth/kill it? Ie having it in an airtight, c02-filled environment. Or will the lacto carry on its day-to-day jollies until the bottle goes kaboom (or at least the beer goes sour and gushy)?

 

[Hopinista]

Lacto won't actually ferment, it just sours. But no, bottling won't stop it.

 

[bionara]

ah cool. So if you notice it you should just leave it to grow and hope for the best (or ditch it)?

 

[Zepth]

Could try to pasteurize. It will also kill your yeast and boil off alcohol. Then you'd need to run a quick calculation to add sugar or dextrose and more yeast to "start over." There will be some leftovers from the lacto, but at least it would be stopped in its tracks.

 

[bionara]

Maybe I could distill it to whiskey?!

 

[CadillacAndy]

Lacto won't actually ferment, it just sours.

Wanted to correct this statement. Lactobacillus are either homofermentative or heterofermentative. Homofermentative means that they produce only lactic acid from the sugars they are consuming. Heterofermentative means they produce alcohol and lactic acid. So to say that lacto doesn't ferment is completely not true.

The lactobacilllus that is cultured by White Labs I believe is l. delbrueckii, which is homofermentative (produces only lactic acid). Since this is a contamination, and a culture hasn't been intentionally pitched, there really is no way of know what wild yeast and bacteria is present (unless you have a microscope) - let alone if the strain of lacto is homo or hetero.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactobacillus#Metabolism and https://www.google.com/search?q=define+fermentation

 

[Hopinista]

Maybe next time just post the link instead of pretending that came off the top of your head.

 

[dcp27]

what makes you think its a lacto infection vs brett?

 

[CadillacAndy]

Maybe next time just post the link instead of pretending that came off the top of your head.

I've done extensive research on lacto fermentation, as well as other "wild" fermentation and enjoy sharing my research and knowledge with other people. So yes, that was off the top of my head with links to act as references.

I wanted to provide a quick writeup so when someone comes across incorrect information, they can find a concise write up correcting it without having to go to 2 different links outside of this forum. No need to be snarky about it.

 

[fearwig]

Could try to pasteurize. It will also kill your yeast and boil off alcohol. Then you'd need to run a quick calculation to add sugar or dextrose and more yeast to "start over." There will be some leftovers from the lacto, but at least it would be stopped in its tracks.

It won't boil off alcohol if you pasteurize conservatively. Bring it to 155-160 for a few minutes and cool it quick (as quick as possible, within reason). You might vape off some aroma but you won't isomerize anything or boil a huge amount of alcohol (it's in solution, it doesn't really boil at 173F).

Consider this chart, if you're ever tempted to listen to the "boil it for 30 minutes" people:

You'll have to repitch unless you force carb, though. And don't bother doing this if it already tastes like **** (pardon).

 

[Hopinista]

Being called snarky by an internet tough guy

 

[MrHadack]

Being called snarky by an internet tough guy

Not that I want to get involved in this, but I hardly see any trace of "tough guy" in his posts, which were quite helpful and informative, actually (the very goal of these forums.)

RDWAHAHB.

 

[CadillacAndy]

Being called snarky by an internet tough guy

You posted wildly wrong information ("Lacto won't actually ferment, it just sours" is what you stated). I posted a detailed reply with references and you are offended. My apologies if you took my correction the wrong way.

This is a forum for people to learn and grow as brewers. Posting incorrect info is counterproductive. When I post something wrong, which is frequently I might add, I am appreciative that people take the time to explain why I'm wrong, which in turns helps me to grow as a brewer. I'm just pointing out that there was wrong information, why it was wrong and where people can learn more if they're so inclined.

 

[bionara]

Thanks a lot for the info on this. The boil method sounds like something I'd give a go on the next encounter of some souring beer (hopefully not for a while).

Mr Hopinista, please take corrections lighter in future! Your information wasn't quite right and you were corrected in a polite manner with cadillacandy's digest backed up by further reading for those inclined.

 

[Hopinista]

Just to clear up, I was never offended. I'm all for admitting I was wrong, but being helpful, and being snarkily helpful are completely different. Using hyperbolic phrases like "wildy wrong." (Nice for an infection thread) really disqualified you from trying to pull the "I was just being helpful." card.

 

[CadillacAndy]

Just to clear up, I was never offended. I'm all for admitting I was wrong, but being helpful, and being snarkily helpful are completely different. Using hyperbolic phrases like "wildy wrong." (Nice for an infection thread) really disqualified you from trying to pull the "I was just being helpful." card.

No worries from me. It's the internet. It's hard to tell vocal inflection and how things are intended to come off. I thought you were being rude after you implied that I have no knowledge on the subject and that I was stealing information from other sources, trying to pass them off as my own. I felt the need to explain where I was coming from and defend myself.

 

[Hopinista]

It's all good. I've been brewing sours going on 4 years now and I learned something new today, so thanks for that :cheers:

 

[BrotherMalcolm]

Cadilla Candy is mean. I dislike her anyway.

 

[fearwig]

BTW if you pasteurize and carb naturally adjust for the C02 offgas you'll get from that heat (i.e. use the peak pasteurization temp as your "fermented at" temp in priming calcs).

 

[Zepth]

It won't boil off alcohol if you pasteurize conservatively. Bring it to 155-160 for a few minutes and cool it quick (as quick as possible, within reason). You might vape off some aroma but you won't isomerize anything or boil a huge amount of alcohol (it's in solution, it doesn't really boil at 173F).

I stand corrected. My idea was to go with the classic "apocalyptic guarantee" since we don't know exactly what the infection is. Then again I am the same guy whose computer starts getting slow then formatted no questions asked.

 

[fearwig]

Then again I am the same guy whose computer starts getting slow then formatted no questions asked.

I am moving toward agreement with this part. But then again I have a four year old who likes to install things.

But yeah, simple pasteurization is good for anything that can practically harm a beer, you just have to make sure you really hit that temperature range.

There are bugs that you have to worry about in other disciplines like mycoculture because they form heat-resistant endospores (which even boiling won't necessarily kill), but I can't see how there's anything that could infect any beer that won't be dead after a couple of seconds at 170. I get why people instinctually revert to boiling, there's a long and proud homebrewing tradition of "kill it with fire".

 

[rskelhorn]

What was the follow-up to this? Did pasteurizing do the trick? Did you drink it?