Do I REALLY need to pay attention to pitch rates???

[homebrewbeliever]

You're right. It absolutely is 6 of one, half a dozen of the other. However, this whole conversation started with:

Speedyellow is right. You don't NEED multiple packs of liquid yeast. Are there times when it might make more sense to buy multiple packs? Maybe, but that depends on the brewer. I grow my yeast up from a couple billion cells from frozen stocks. To me it is worth a couple bucks worth of DME to have a never-ending supply of yeast. To others it might just be worth $6 to buy another pack. To each his own. However, you don't NEED multiple packs.

Yes, I also agree. This is why I ended up saying "why the hell not," and build my own damn stir plate out of a cigar box for a total of $7. Works friggin' super well too. I also decided to say "why the hell not" a second time and bought Williams Brewing's Oxygenation wand... No more under-attenuated beer for me!

 

[homebrewbeliever]

Soooooo, I hate to revive this thread, but now that I've brewed a few big beers using the proper pitch rate (I used yeastcalc.com to determine the pitch rate), I'm going to make a wheat beer that's going to have a starting gravity around 1.053. Yeastcalc says that I need around 195 billion cells, and both wyeast and white labs (I'll be using a wyeast smack pack for this beer) say that they've got a minimum of 100 billion cells in their packs (I'll just assume 100 billion though to be safe). Should I really make a starter for this beer, or should I just use one smack pack? Yeastcalc says that if I make a 1 liter starter on my stir plate (assuming I start with 100 billion cells), I'll end up with around 220 billion cells. I'm still new to the yeast starter thing, so I am not sure if it would be a good idea to make one for a beer like this...

 

[Yooper]

Soooooo, I hate to revive this thread, but now that I've brewed a few big beers using the proper pitch rate (I used yeastcalc.com to determine the pitch rate), I'm going to make a wheat beer that's going to have a starting gravity around 1.053. Yeastcalc says that I need around 195 billion cells, and both wyeast and white labs (I'll be using a wyeast smack pack for this beer) say that they've got a minimum of 100 billion cells in their packs (I'll just assume 100 billion though to be safe). Should I really make a starter for this beer, or should I just use one smack pack? Yeastcalc says that if I make a 1 liter starter on my stir plate (assuming I start with 100 billion cells), I'll end up with around 220 billion cells. I'm still new to the yeast starter thing, so I am not sure if it would be a good idea to make one for a beer like this...

But assuming 100 billion cells is a mistake. Sure, if you bought the yeast today from the company that made it on Friday and kept it cool, you might have darn near that amount.

But if the yeast is a month old, wasn't kept in the fridge during transport, etc, the viability is not the same. I know mrmalty.com has a place to put the age of the yeast in the calculator to estimate viability. I recommend doing that, and making a starter based on the probably viability of your yeast package.

 

[homebrewbeliever]

But assuming 100 billion cells is a mistake. Sure, if you bought the yeast today from the company that made it on Friday and kept it cool, you might have darn near that amount.

But if the yeast is a month old, wasn't kept in the fridge during transport, etc, the viability is not the same. I know mrmalty.com has a place to put the age of the yeast in the calculator to estimate viability. I recommend doing that, and making a starter based on the probably viability of your yeast package.

Right, and yeastcalc does too, so I am just guessing (I haven't bought the yeast yet so I don't know the "born on" date). Anyway yooper, do you think that its worth making a starter even for a batch that is around this SG?

 

[BrettV]

I have made a starter for every one of my beers that used liquid yeast, and their OGs have ranged from 1050-1070. As I understand, it is never a bad idea to make a starter. Nothing wrong with making sure you have lots of healthy, viable yeast when it comes time to pitch.

 

[Hermit]

I have made a starter for every one of my beers that used liquid yeast, and their OGs have ranged from 1050-1070. As I understand, it is never a bad idea to make a starter. Nothing wrong with making sure you have lots of healthy, viable yeast when it comes time to pitch.

This. It certainly would cut down on the panic threads if people knew there yeast was active when pitched.

 

[Yooper]

Right, and yeastcalc does too, so I am just guessing (I haven't bought the yeast yet so I don't know the "born on" date). Anyway yooper, do you think that its worth making a starter even for a batch that is around this SG?

I think "starter" whenever the OG is above about 1.040-1.044 and using liquid yeast.

 

[tonyc318]

I make a starter on every beer except the GF I make for my wife. You are much better off pitching yeast that is ready for battle! I usually make the starter the night be for I brew. Then usually pitch it while its really active. I've greatly improved my brewing because of this step. My last beer flew out of the keg because my family couldn't get enough. I'm a big fan of starters. Even if the OG is in the 40's. it's not just about having enough cells, it's also about having active, healthy cells.
Yeast make the beer. Make sure your yeast is ready to kick butt.

 

[kombat]

Another vote for the starter. In my experience, it drastically reduces the lag time. A properly prepared starter will take off like a rocket in the main batch, whereas rehydrated dry yeast (or direct-pitched liquid yeast) might sit around for a day or two while I nervously fret over whether or not it's going to start.

Making the wort is the easy part. Proper fermentation is what really makes the difference. Don't take shortcuts.

 

[SpeedYellow]

Another vote for the starter. In my experience, it drastically reduces the lag time. A properly prepared starter will take off like a rocket in the main batch, whereas rehydrated dry yeast (or direct-pitched liquid yeast) might sit around for a day or two while I nervously fret over whether or not it's going to start.

Making the wort is the easy part. Proper fermentation is what really makes the difference. Don't take shortcuts.

While I'd agree that 1-2 days lag time is excessive, we shouldn't imply that taking off like a rocket is a legitimate brewing goal. 10-20 hours is pretty typical when you pitch a good amount of yeast. I haven't seen any evidence that single-digit hours is better, and in fact it might just be worse.

 

[kombat]

I haven't noticed any ill-effects, but you're right, that it's not required for good beer. It's far more important to ensure you pitch an appropriate quantity of healthy, viable yeast. When using liquid yeast from a starter, I pay extra careful attention to my wort temperatures for those critical first few days.

 

[homebrewbeliever]

Noted! Thank you, ladies and gentleman! I sincerely appreciate it. I'll be sure to just shut up and make a starter