Direct Drive Mill Motors

[Epos7]

I bought a Monster Mills MM-2Pro SL a month ago, machined an aluminum block to serve as a base, and have almost completed building a table for it. I'd like to power the mill with a direct drive motor. The American Ale Works motors look like a good bet, but before I pull the trigger on one of those I want to make sure there are no other options I should be considering.

Anyone out there with a direct drive mill using something different than the American Ale Works motors?

 

[mcl]

Here is a cheap option that I have been using on my MM 3 roller for about 3 years. They are all over ebay. Can usually get them for about $35. They are a touch slow but mine works great.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hill-Rom-K37MYC223332-Electric-Motor-Hospital-Bed-New-1-9-HP-77RPM-/361730483417?hash=item5438d124d9:g:yFIAAOSw7FRWbgnD

 

[Epos7]

Hospital bed motors, good thinking! It looks like there are some ~200rpm models floating around eBay as well, albeit not quite as cheap.

 

[Vesteroid]

Not knocking wanting a motor, but am trying to understand why one wants a motor. I have a MM2 pro and use a drill. I had the .50 drill anyway and I made a mount to allow me to mount the mill and hold it on a bucket. It takes me maybe 5 minutes to mill 20 lbs of grain at most and that includes getting the mill out and the drill then putting them away?

I admit mine is kind of start and stop and try and hold the trigger steady, but is that doing anything (bad) to my grain?

 

[Epos7]

Not knocking wanting a motor, but am trying to understand why one wants a motor. I have a MM2 pro and use a drill. I had the .50 drill anyway and I made a mount to allow me to mount the mill and hold it on a bucket. It takes me maybe 5 minutes to mill 20 lbs of grain at most and that includes getting the mill out and the drill then putting them away?

I admit mine is kind of start and stop and try and hold the trigger steady, but is that doing anything (bad) to my grain?

Mostly convenience. I have the same mill as you, but with the helical slotted rollers, and find that my high-torque low-RPM 1/2" corded Makita drill works pretty hard driving the mill. I've switched to a more powerful right angle drill that can pull 10 amps. That thing powers through the grain really easily and at 300RPM, but it's a behemoth and unwieldy.

I have an untested theory that roller speed affects grain crush. I'd like to be able to easily run my mill at a consistent speed.

The only issue I'm seeing with the hospital bed motors is that at 1/9HP they're significantly under-powered compared to the All American Ale Works offerings.

 

[day_trippr]

Not knocking wanting a motor, but am trying to understand why one wants a motor.[...]

A permanent mount with integrated drive is pretty handy and given a large enough feed hopper and catch bucket allows one to do other things while the grain is being crushed.



It doesn't mill any better than standing there holding a drill, but there's something to be said for convenience...

Cheers!

 

[Bobby_M]

Hospital bed motors, good thinking! It looks like there are some ~200rpm models floating around eBay as well, albeit not quite as cheap.

To avoid buying a bunch of motors one after the other, you have to understand the torque requirements. A 1/6HP or 60 inch pounds motor is not going to do it. A mill with 2" rollers needs at least 250 inch pounds so the HP rating is going to depend on the speed you want. I'm running 63 RPM right now and would like something in the 120-150 area but that puts me at a 1/2 HP motor and they are hard to find at 120v for less than $300.

 

[Epos7]

To avoid buying a bunch of motors one after the other, you have to understand the torque requirements. A 1/6HP or 60 inch pounds motor is not going to do it. A mill with 2" rollers needs at least 250 inch pounds so the HP rating is going to depend on the speed you want. I'm running 63 RPM right now and would like something in the 120-150 area but that puts me at a 1/2 HP motor and they are hard to find at 120v for less than $300.

Fair point. Given that, the All American Ale Works motors seem pretty fairly priced. They're also easy to mount on a mill table.

edit - the All American Ale Works motors produce either 130 inch-pounds or 174 inch-pounds depending on which speed you choose. 250 inch-pounds may be overkill.

 

[Bobby_M]

Now that I looked at the specs of mine being 108 inch pounds, I tend to agree that the 130 would probably be OK. I get by most of the time unless I try to mill a lot of carapils or rye and then I jam up. This 108inlb would be fine for a 1.5" diameter roller. I have 2" and the required torque is much more. I really like the idea of running 3x faster than I currently do and yes, the $225 price is very reasonable.

 

[mcl]

Also keep in mind you need more power at the start. That is why these motors with capacitors work. Again mine has been working for about 4 years

 

[Couchy]

The ideal mill motor solution is not hard to find, and hasn't been hard to find for five years now. You only need to look elsewhere than in the US.

It all began six years ago when a local Australian company, MotionDynamics, asked the members of this forum's sister site (Aussie Home Brewer) what brewers are looking for in a mill motor (see http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/44766-mill-motors/ , but check out more recent posts for brewers' mill builds etc).

The result was this (see pic below), a variable speed 12 volt DC motor with 20 Newton metres of torque (that's about 15 foot pounds, or 177 inch pounds): See https://www.motiondynamics.com.au/home-brewer-special-worm-drive-motor-dc-speed-controller.html

Now that's $159 in Australian dollars, which at the current exchange rate is about US$122. And you can deduct a further 10% to remove the Australian GST tax that's included in the online price and not applicable to you in the US (also note that there is a Free Trade Agreement between Australia and the US, so import taxes should not apply). Add the cost of a 120vAC/12vDC power supply at about $30, a Love Joy coupling (aka spider coupling), a steel shaft to connect the coupling to the motor, and shipping to the US and it should still come in under US$200 delivered to the US. Problem sorted.

Here's a youtube of the mill motor in action (note the variable speed control so you can get the crush you want, and see how it can start and stop crushing grain while the hopper is full): [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5oa-UGcKnw[/ame]

I have no affiliation to this company. Just see that fellow brewers in the US are still playing around with mains powered motors and building arm-ripping exposed pulley systems. Time to enter the 21st century and keep yourself safe and save some money on quality kit.

And Bobby M, love your brew gear and your engagement with the home brew community. Why not consider doing a a bulk import of this motor at wholesale price to retail to US brewers? You'd be doing yourself and them a favour to check it out.

(And for those thinking of buying a motor of this type direct from China, be warned that they are not all the same even though they may look the same. The MotionDynamics ones have been lab tested and field trialed so their durability and performance is known. Fly solo at your own risk).

Good luck.

Steve
(Melbourne)

 

[jddevinn]

I use one of these $70 motors direct coupled from Amazon. At 50RPM it has 8.5ft-lb or 102in-lb.

 

[Epos7]

That variable speed DC motor looks like a pretty elegant solution. Unfortunately I had ordered the 180RPM All American Ale Works kit before I saw your post. My only solace is that the product you linked to is currently sold out.

I think the All American Ale Works motor should work out well for me, but it's great to see there are other solutions available that don't involve a pulley system, which as mentioned, is more than a little hazardous.

Another option that was suggested to me is the use of a 3-phase motor coupled with a VFD (variable frequency drive). The VFD takes 120 VAC single phase input and outputs 230VAC 3-phase. The variable frequency component, coupled with a 3-phase motor, gives you speed control. I think this can be done for around $200. This idea was also suggested to me after I had placed an order for the All American Ale Works motor

 

[sneakybrian]

i bought a harbor freight motor a 90 degree 10:1 gear reducer and a love-joy connector to connect the motor to my barley crusher. the motor is 1725 rpm and .5 hp which is 1.5 foot pounds of tq. the gear reducer divides the rpm by 10 and multiplies the tq by 10, so you end up at 172.5 rpm and 15 foot pounds of tq. i got the reducer at surpluscenter.com link here http://www.surpluscenter.com/Power-Transmission/Gear-Reducers-Gearboxes/Right-Angle-C-Face-Input-Gear-Reducers/10-1-RA-GEAR-REDUCER-0-77-HP-56C-RIGHT-OUTPUT-13-133-10-R-56C.axd
i think the motor runs 120 new at harbor freight nad the reducer is 115.
here are some pics

 

[beergolf]

I have All American Ale Works motor for my MM 2 Pro. I could not be happier. It was super easy to set up and has a ton of power. I think it would grind rocks. Sure there are cheaper alternatives, but I went this route for the ease of mounting and hooking it up. Easy, fill the hopper, flip the switch and it just grinds away.

 

[Bailey_Brew]

I use one of these $70 motors direct coupled https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00LTM3AT6/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20 At 50RPM it has 8.5ft-lb or 102in-lb.

JD - thanks for the link. What did you use for a shaft coupler?

 

[jddevinn]

JD - thanks for the link. What did you use for a shaft coupler?

One of these http://www.mcmaster.com/#5395T313.

If I had to do it again I would get one of the couplings that allows for a little more misalignment. Also available on Mcmaster.

I cut the threading part of the motor shaft off and simply bent a piece of sheet metal for the bracket. I copied this from someone off here but can't remember who

 

[SuperBobbyM]

Williams Brewing has a couple of really nice kits that include motor, switch and coupler. I got one for my Cereal Killer Mill and it works great, just had to make a board and assemble.View attachment 372904

https://www.williamsbrewing.com/DOUBLE-ROLLER-GRAIN-MILL-MOTORIZING-KIT-P4176.aspx

https://www.williamsbrewing.com/TRIPLE-ROLLER-GRAIN-MILL-MOTORIZING-KIT-P4173.aspx


View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1475933876.108092.jpg

 

[StagsHead]

I have All American Ale Works motor for my MM 2 Pro. I could not be happier. It was super easy to set up and has a ton of power. I think it would grind rocks. Sure there are cheaper alternatives, but I went this route for the ease of mounting and hooking it up. Easy, fill the hopper, flip the switch and it just grinds away.

Beergolf - does the American Ale Works motor come with a switch, or does it have to have a separate one wired into it.

 

[beergolf]

Beergolf - does the American Ale Works motor come with a switch, or does it have to have a separate one wired into it.

It does not come with a switch, but it is real easy to wire one. I just used a regular light switch. The wiring diagram is easy to follow.

 

[beernutz]

Not knocking wanting a motor, but am trying to understand why one wants a motor. I have a MM2 pro and use a drill. I had the .50 drill anyway and I made a mount to allow me to mount the mill and hold it on a bucket. It takes me maybe 5 minutes to mill 20 lbs of grain at most and that includes getting the mill out and the drill then putting them away?

I admit mine is kind of start and stop and try and hold the trigger steady, but is that doing anything (bad) to my grain?

The problem with some drills is that their rpms are too fast for the mill's recommended usage. My buddy friended me a 1/2" Black and Decker drill but it turned at 550 RPM and the speed wasn't adjustable. I added a HF router speed controller to turn it off and on as well as adjust the speed and mounted everything in a plastic box to make it easier store and use. Now I don't have to hold the trigger though a zip tie would also work.

 

[cbier60]

Williams Brewing has a couple of really nice kits that include motor, switch and coupler. I got one for my Cereal Killer Mill and it works great, just had to make a board and assemble.

https://www.williamsbrewing.com/DOUBLE-ROLLER-GRAIN-MILL-MOTORIZING-KIT-P4176.aspx

https://www.williamsbrewing.com/TRIPLE-ROLLER-GRAIN-MILL-MOTORIZING-KIT-P4173.aspx

Have you confirmed the output is at 180 rpm? If Williams is selling the exact motor shown in the picture, it's probably not. The picture shows the motor rpm is 1350 at 50 Hz, and the reducer model is 5KB-7.5, which I assume means the reducer ratio is 7.5. 1350/7.5 = 180 rpm @ 50 Hz, not 60 Hz. An AC motor typically runs at ~1725 rpm at 60 Hz, in which case the output speed would be 230rpm. It should have a 10:1 reducer.

 

[jrcrilly]

It does not come with a switch, but it is real easy to wire one. I just used a regular light switch. The wiring diagram is easy to follow.

I haven't yet gotten around to mounting and wiring my American Ale Works motor. I had planned on using alight switch but I like the idea of a slam switch as used in the Williams kit. I may go that route instead. I would, for sure, if I already had one left over from the control panel build.

 

[bldeagle1]

The ideal mill motor solution is not hard to find, and hasn't been hard to find for five years now. You only need to look elsewhere than in the US.

It all began six years ago when a local Australian company, MotionDynamics, asked the members of this forum's sister site (Aussie Home Brewer) what brewers are looking for in a mill motor (see http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/44766-mill-motors/ , but check out more recent posts for brewers' mill builds etc).

The result was this (see pic below), a variable speed 12 volt DC motor with 20 Newton metres of torque (that's about 15 foot pounds, or 177 inch pounds): See https://www.motiondynamics.com.au/home-brewer-special-worm-drive-motor-dc-speed-controller.html

Now that's $159 in Australian dollars, which at the current exchange rate is about US$122. And you can deduct a further 10% to remove the Australian GST tax that's included in the online price and not applicable to you in the US (also note that there is a Free Trade Agreement between Australia and the US, so import taxes should not apply). Add the cost of a 120vAC/12vDC power supply at about $30, a Love Joy coupling (aka spider coupling), a steel shaft to connect the coupling to the motor, and shipping to the US and it should still come in under US$200 delivered to the US. Problem sorted.


Good luck.

Steve
(Melbourne)

View attachment 371061

Thanks Steve, too bad the shipping from down under adds $85 to the price!

 

[Merkur]

This is a good thread. The availability of motors, gearboxes and actuators has grown considerably over the past 3 years or so. Are there now more economical solutions than those shown above, or has the cost of good quality gear-motors stayed fairly constant?

Paul

 

[missiletech]

It does not come with a switch, but it is real easy to wire one. I just used a regular light switch. The wiring diagram is easy to follow.

Do you have a photo of the wiring? Looks like 1-3-5 for hot/neutral and 2-4-6 for the neutral/hot and 5 & 6 reverse the direction.

I think it's just seeming too simple and I'm nuking it.

 

[day_trippr]

Good chance @beergolf was saying to essentially cut the line cord, run the black wire through a switch, then rejoin everything at a wall plug. That would mimic what American Ale Works shows on their web site - there's no reverse function shown in any of the motor pages, and a "regular light switch" only has one switched pole, so On/Off is all one can get out of that...

Cheers!

 

[missiletech]

I just meant standard wiring. The wires come all jumble in the wire box and they just have a cheesy diagram.

 

[augiedoggy]

I used a motor like this I picked up on ebay for about $80 https://www.ebay.com/itm/Bodine-Electric-Motor-42R6BFPP-F2-Gear-Motor-3-8HP-170RPM-230VAC-1-9A-115lb-in/312645379079?hash=item48cb1de407&_trkparms=ispr=1&enc=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&checksum=312645379079ff3c14aec1094a31b326343288044738 and added a $10 drum switch like this https://www.ebay.com/itm/60-A-Drum-...140714?hash=item2cea38a0aa:g:UxwAAOSwfQtbUAmo which gives me reverse if needed.
the slower170rpm is said to extend the life of the knurling but we shall see.. The 3 roller kegco mill has been in use at a brewpub for just over a year milling about 200lbs avg a week and everything has held up like new so seems to be working well.

 

[ScrewyBrewer]

I opted for a Malt Muncher 2 with the direct drive motor kit and built a custom base for it. I've used it a half dozen times so far and I'm happy I went this route.