Death to Kettle sours?

[CCBsean]

This is a topic I've been hearing a lot of discussion about in the brewing industry. Some Brewers get mad at the idea of souring beer the quick way and some, like James Howat, owner and head Brewer at Former Future Brewery, take it so far as to wear a shirt that says "Death to Kettle sours"
The argument that he makes is that it does an injustice to the Traditional methods, like beer souring in barrels for a long period of time instead of just a few days in the kettle.
Maybe kettle sour beers don't have the complexity that aged sours do but I have definitely had a few kettle sours that I enjoyed over ones using the traditional method. Plus If done right, I can buy it for half the cost

I'm not saying there's not a lot of bad kettle sours on the market that tastes like vomit in a bottle, but not all barrel aged sours are that great either.

Sometimes it's important to focus a little more on the product instead of the process

I'm curious to hear everyone's thoughts

Cheers!

 

[ColoHox]

If a brewery is kettle-souring and making good beer, then who cares? If these brewers have a lot of people coming in a paying for their often cheaper, kettle soured beer, I guess the barrel-sour purists are going to get upset that they can't charge $25 for a bomber.

I get James Howat's point. He is complaining that people are just jumping on the sour-train and making bad beer via kettling. That practice hurts the whole industry. If a novice drinker has a bad kettle-soured beer and think that is how they are supposed to taste, they won't drink any more.

I find kettle-soured beers to be less complex, but for the average craft beer drinker, or even a novice, kettle-soured beers are often much more approachable.

There is a ton of innovation in the industry, despite the long tradition and practice of brewing.

 

[m00ps]

Kettle souring lends itself better to certain styles of sours like berliner weisse where you want a nice clean sour character. I like both, but prefer traditional souring methods to get something that will evolve in the bottle over time

But where kettle souring really makes sense is on a commercial scale. They dont have to have a batch sitting in a fermentor for months (where they could be churning out 5-6 more batches) and dont have to worry about contaminating their equipment

 

[CCBsean]

Kettle souring lends itself better to certain styles of sours like berliner weisse where you want a nice clean sour character. I like both, but prefer traditional souring methods to get something that will evolve in the bottle over time

But where kettle souring really makes sense is on a commercial scale. They dont have to have a batch sitting in a fermentor for months (where they could be churning out 5-6 more batches) and dont have to worry about contaminating their equipment

I agree that certain styles are more suitable for the kettle souring approach, but that being said I just kegged off 15 bbls of my wild red ale that's kettle soured for 5 days then fermented with a mix of WLP566 saison 2 and Brett brux for 3 weeks before packaging and it came out amazing. Awesome barnyard funk and will continue to age in the keg and bottle so it's not like only barrel produced sours can be aged

 

[iijakii]

Anyoen ever have Trinity's 7-Day Sour? It's fantastic and stands up to a lot of traditional sours in my opinion. I made a clone of it and love it. Kettle soured until desired tartness (I went a lot more sour than Trinity's), fermented with a Brett blend. Was fantastic.

 

[m00ps]

I agree that certain styles are more suitable for the kettle souring approach, but that being said I just kegged off 15 bbls of my wild red ale that's kettle soured for 5 days then fermented with a mix of WLP566 saison 2 and Brett brux for 3 weeks before packaging and it came out amazing. Awesome barnyard funk and will continue to age in the keg and bottle so it's not like only barrel produced sours can be aged

To me, that seems like you used both methods of kettle souring followed by a mixed fermentation. Sounds tasty, but I consider kettle souring as when they boil off the lacto and ferment it with a clean yeast so the end product has no living wild stuff in it

 

[Yesfan]

I know less about sours than I did about homebrewing when I started three years ago. I've only had about 3 different sours and two of those three I loved. My favorite (so far) was Sam Adams Stony Brook Red. I know there's probably a LOT more at there to try. For me, if the beer tastes good, then the process doesn't matter. Seems a lot like the "extra vs all-grain" argument.


I'm wonder how much longer it will be before A-B/InBev starts mass producing a "Bud Light Sour" or a "Michelob Ultra Sour" in hopes of cashing in on the sour beer movement.

 

[Grannyknot]

The 2 methods produce completely different results.
Don't understand the necessity to even compare them.
Now, sour mash vs Kettle sour, I can understand.

 

[iijakii]

To me, that seems like you used both methods of kettle souring followed by a mixed fermentation. Sounds tasty, but I consider kettle souring as when they boil off the lacto and ferment it with a clean yeast so the end product has no living wild stuff in it

He just fermented with yeast, no lacto/pedio etc in it. That's a kettle sour still.

 

[fuzzy2133]

I do not see anything wrong with a kettle sour when it is conducted properly. When I have a plan worked out I'll try it with Sante Adairius process.

 

[D-Train]

I think the beef is that the logistics and time involved in mixed fermentation sours command higher price points, but brewers are turning out quick sours and taking advantage of the higher price points while shortcutting the traditional processes. Currently there seems to be more demand than supply for sour beer styles, at least in my area. Some brewers are using kettle sours to put out a subpar product at high price points. Then you have people who are get turned off by sour styles because their first experience is a subpar product. As mentioned above, when well executed I'm sure it's fine (Fair State is a good example here in MN), but I also know that a well executed kettle sour / sour mash is very difficult, and the off flavors involved are very extreme (vomit, diapers, stinky feet, etc.).

 

[CCBsean]

The 2 methods produce completely different results.
Don't understand the necessity to even compare them.
Now, sour mash vs Kettle sour, I can understand.

different results ya, but they're still sour beers and do contain similarities. I think there's a lot to compare but the argument isn't really about if they are the same or not, rather if kettle souring should be acceptable method of souring.

but ya i see where you're coming from

 

[Cyclman]

With rating sites and whatnot, inferior beers will ultimately lose the battle. Either method can produce good or bad beer.

I find it a little ridiculous to be "against" a brewing practice- it is a tool in the toolbox. Better to take an educational approach and market the benefits to the practice you advocate.