Daikon Radish?

[DaveNH]

http://yogasphere.net/daikon-radish/

Daikon is one of the best food sources of digestive enzymes. Daikon contains the enzymes diastase, amylase, and esterase to aid the digestion of fats, carbohydrates and proteins all at once.

Anyone think that this might help with converting gf grains/seeds?

The flavor of daikon is also far more mild than the typical red radish.

 

[glutarded-chris]

You could do a pair of small test batches to see.
Get some malted millet and mash one alone and one with the Daikon. Take gravity reading along the way and see if there is a noticeable difference with the Daikon. Then compare the taste of the wart to see what taste the Daikon imparts. If you are not turned off by the Daikon wart, then finish the brewing with both batches and compare the final beer.

I have my doubts but you never know. Someone a long time ago put this weird plant leaf in their brew kettle and now most of the planet can't live without hops!

 

[DaveNH]

So I've been thinking about this more.

It's tough to find any scientific literature on the enzymatic content of daikon, but most links use phrases like "full of" enzymes, etc. Not that that means much for our purposes, but they're also usually referring to the mature root.

Unlike sweet potato, for instance, daikon is grown from seed and it's sprouts are common in Japanese cuisine. Like most plants, I figure it is likely that the enzymatic content is highest in the sprouts.

Further, daikon is a suggested substitute for potato in low carb diets, given that it is lower carb but has a better texture (than, say, the standard cauliflower substitute). Given the lower carb level of daikon, I'm making a WAG that it has more enzymes than needed for conversion of itself.

So here's what I'm thinking...

I will try to "malt" daikon seed. Then boil up a starchy adjunct (was thinking quinoa, but maybe rice as it's far more established in brewing) and do a small mash with the daikon "malt." Try a large 1 to 1 ratio of "malt" and adjunct first, just to see if conversion is even possible, and adjust from there.

In this case, the daikon "malt" is mostly there to contribute enzymes (hopefully).

I've also read that daikon sprouts have more of the spicy radish flavors than the mature root, so perhaps it might add a bittering component as well.

 

[DaveNH]

http://www.herbwisdom.com/herb-daikon.html

A few snippets that may mean absolutely nothing.

It contains large amounts of enzymes that aid in fat and starch digestion as well as high levels of vitamin C, phosphorus and potassium.

Daikon seed can be sprouted and then consumed similar to other sprouted seeds. It can also be cooked with grains.

Laboratory testing has shown that the enzyme profile in daikon juice is very similar to the human digestive tract.

http://whatscookingamerica.net/DaikonRadish.htm

daikon contains active enzymes that aid digestion, particularly of starchy foods.

 

[DaveNH]

A Pdf of a paper titled "A major β-amylase expressed in radish taproots".

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...qjSGivDUe-DlQF9IA&sig2=wKZTjr7O-PweNltSOrGgTg

In conclusion, we summarize the present results as follows. 1) The potent 28 amylolytic activity in the radish taproot is due to the β-amylase RsBAMY1. 2) A 29 simple purification process for RsBAMY1 was established. 3) Young taproots 30 contain high amylolytic activity. 4) The RsBAMY1 gene may be a useful marker in 31 the production of sweeter radishes. These results are expected to provide useful 32 information regarding the development of products to which the properties of radish 33 β-amylase can be applied.

So perhaps the sprouts aren't the best bet.

 

[DaveNH]

So I'm running some small scale experiments today.

The link I found to a study of daikon indicated beta amylase activity in the tap root. Other links indicated that the juice of the daikon was flash with enzymes. Given that I can get daikon locally, I figured I'd tried that first before attempting to "malt" the seed.

In the first test I pulsed a 1# root in the food processor, similar to making cauliflower "rice," with which those paleo/primal folks among us may be familiar.

To make things simple, I decided to use instant rice for an easy, already gelatinized starch source.

I intended to "mash" with one pound each of daikon "rice" and instant rice, at 1.5qt/pound, for a mash temp of 145F. I was trying to maximize the beta amylase, as the study I found specifically referenced b-amylase.

With such a small volume I overshot my strike temp, so I just added the instant rice and stirred until temp dropped. I also did a starch test as a control.

I covered my pot in a few sweatshirts and did another test at 30 minutes.

So far, no good.

 

[DaveNH]

At 1 hr.

I'm calling it.

 

[DaveNH]

For the second test I have pureed 1# of daikon in the food processor, then put the puree in a mesh hop bag (1g paint strainer), and squeezed the juice out.

I got a little over 12oz of liquid from the daikon, which I well add to 1# of minute rice (at 1.5qt/piund), again looking for a mash temp of 145F.

 

[DaveNH]

There may be some hope...

I actually boiled 2.5qt before adding the instant rice in experiment #2. Initial starch test, as expected, came up dark blue.

As a small nano scale test, I took 1 tablespoon each of the liquid from the rice and the daikon juice. I mixed them in a 1 cup, copper bottomed pot (yes, 1 cup).

After an hour, here is the starch test on that tiny sample:

Certainly not full conversion, but it certainly looks to me that some has occurred.

I'm sure that such a small sample in that pot cooled quickly. Further, some of the links I found hinted that the enzymes in daikon were very heat sensitive, with at least one claiming that 50% denature within 30 minutes after grating raw daikon.

This makes me wonder whether a no heat mash is preferable. Might need to make another trip to the grocery store tomorrow.

 

[DaveNH]

So after a 75 minute "mash" with the juice, I had no apparent conversion in the full batch. With such a small volume in a 12qt pot, I lost quite a bit of heat (145F to 130F).

I am thinking the no heat mash might be the way to go, although I'm hoping it will not require a 1 to 1 ratio as in the nano test.

New plan:

Boil 3qts water and add 1# instant rice. Let sit until rice is fully cooked/gelatinized. Drain and let water cool to room temperature. "Juice" 1# daikon and add to water from rice. Conduct starch tests at 30, 60 and 90 minutes.

 

[DaveNH]

One concern regarding my tests today, particularly the second. I just strained the rice through a colander and took a sample from the strained water. It was absurdly cloudy, and I'm wondering if by not adding rice hulls and draining in my tun, that starch particles were throwing off my tests. Might strain through a coffee filter tomorrow as a precaution.

 

[DaveNH]

Slight change to my plan from yesterday.

I decided to try both a "no heat" as well as another attempt in mash temp ranges. I also tried to filter through some rice hulls and mesh bag, but that didn't make much of a difference.

I added 1 cup instant rice to 44oz boiling water, let sit 10-15 minutes, then strained and chilled. Here, again, is the initial starch test:

At 72F I added the juice from 10.5oz daikon, mixed and let sit.

Interestingly, there formed a distinct layer in the fluid. I'm not sure if the liquids just separated, or if starch particles settled out.

I racked off the top layer with a turkey baster and did another starch test (will test the bottom layer when it settles again).

Better, but not great.

SG of the top layer was 1.008.

 

[DaveNH]

The test again at mash temps yielded no appreciable conversion.

So I'm seeing better results at 65-70F. Next step is another "no heat" mash, but adding the full daikon puree instead of just the juice.

I still think I need to give malting the seed a try once this phase is over.

 

[DaveNH]

So after letting the puree steep for 3 hours then straining, the starch test still wasn't great. But I decided to let it sit overnight.

This morning, here is the result:

The sample was taken from near the surface, so to be safe, I tested a sample from a deeper level.

Still not there, do it continues to sit.

Two big downsides so far...

1. Time.

This taking quite a long time, but it is small scale. Perhaps using 5+ pounds in a full mash would be quicker. I may transfer to a dish so that the liquid is shallower and see if that helps.

2. Smell

As of this morning, the liquid smells awful. I tasted the liquid yesterday, and while not bad, it's not necessarily a taste I'd want in my beer. Daikon is mild tasting, but it doesn't fit here, although perhaps with some roasted grains (instead of just rice) it would be masked.

 

[Osedax]

Good stuff! Keep it coming if you have the data points. Definitely an interesting read. Just for science sake, you might want to throw in a control. Same test but, with commercial enzymes if you can find them. Also, you might consider amylase powder for the no heat control.

 

[DaveNH]

Checked again after getting home from work. This is approximately 24hrs of a "no heat" mash.

The left is a sample from near the surface. The right is from about 1/3 up from the bottom. Looks pretty decent.

Just to be sure, I pulled a sample from the very bottom, where sediment had clearly fallen.

I suppose the real question is whether conversion really took place, or whether the liquids stratified and gave a false test. There doesn't appear, visually, to be a separation apart from the sediment at the bottom.

This is the first time I've used instant rice. Is that sediment something I should expect, or do people think it's unconverted starch? Or both?

Given that I was at work, I can't know for sure how long it took for conversion, but it was somewhere between 15-24 hrs of 65-70 ambient mashing. Theoretically a heated mash should perform better, but my experiments showed no appreciable conversion at mash temps. Perhaps it was my temp control, although my thermometer was accurate during my calibration beforehand.

I should, as suggested, try a control with commercial enzymes.

I think the next test is to scale up. Boil rice, cool to 65-70F, and add significantly more daikon puree (5-6#) to see if conversion is faster.

 

[Osedax]

Amylase is active between a huge range of temperatures all the way up to ~170F. This is how the germ can turn its starch reserves to sugar in outdoor temp swings. Amylase is just the most active between 140-158F. However, I believe this is talking about barley amylase.

Radishes grow typically in cold climates (I think) and below ground. Enzyme activity in these might work at lower temperatures. Although, this is all speculation and I have nothing to back that up.

 

[DaveNH]

I suppose I should explain why I'm going out into left field with this experiment.Two reasons.

1. I'm not interested in relying on added enzymes, and was curious if there could be alternatives to the fairly complex mashing schedules I've seen for gf brews. I'm not celiac, or diagnosed gluten intolerant, but notice a huge difference when I have gluten grains (bloated, migraines, bum knees ache worse, gi issues).

2. I have a friend (not celiac but very gluten intolerant) that is interested in brewing, but prefers to keep things as natural as possible, and doesn't want to resort to syrups, extracts or enzymes. She would like something that, theoretically, she could grow/malt/roast herself. Daikon should grow well and easily here in NH.