Crystal Cream Ale

[MarcusKillion]

EDIT OG is 1.054 -- not 1.0354


7 Lbs 8.3 oz 2 row
2.70 oz Carapils
7.60 oz Vienna
20.5 oz Rice
2 Lbs 8 oz Flaked Corn
Either Notty or US-05 yeast ... do not remember Don't think it matters much

Mash in 18.13 Quarts water @ 163 Step Temp 150 for 75 minutes
Fly Sparge with 6.68 Gallons water @ 168
Est pre boil gravity 1.042


boil
.28 oz hallertauer @ 60 min
.46 oz Willamette @ 60 min
.67 oz Crystal @ 60 min
1.0 oz Crystal @ 10 min


5.5%ABV

 

[MarcusKillion]

So I just opened one of these . Tasting very good . A bit of aging does wonders . I think I am going to be making more of this . Between this and the original Cream of Three Crops I used as a guide for this I plan on having many good beers to drink . both are very good after they age a month .

 

[jdelatte]

Think I will try this next, tweaking the grain bill weights a little

 

[estricklin]

Think I will try this next, tweaking the grain bill weights a little

Looking to brew a session?

 

[jdelatte]

If thats what you call it, lol

 

[MarcusKillion]

Drinking one now . It is not too bad . I think it would be quite good with the 3 pounds of corn in it actually . This has a little bit of a perhaps citrus taste from the hops but it is real faint.
I might tweek it again next time and try to get a little more malt taste . Maybe some promise or some other tasty grain half with the 2 row.

 

[jdelatte]

Going to try something close to

8lbs 2 row
8oz carapils
8oz vienna
1lbs flaked rice
1lbs flaked corn

Willamette at 60 mins
Willamette at 5 mins

 

[jdelatte]

With wlp080 yeast

 

[jdelatte]

About to bottle
8lbs 2 row
1lbs flaked rice

1oz of sazz at 60 mins

Safale US 05 yeast

Was just using up what I had, will post pics

 

[MarcusKillion]

that is what I was doing , just using up some grains . Seems different bottles taste a bit different to me . I think they need to age a little longer .
got to bump it it quite a bit as cold weather is coming and I am going to want a hoppy malty blonde .

 

[jdelatte]

I had the same thing with a cream ale I made, let them sit for two weeks and they come out good, i tried them throughout the weeks to just see how the taste changes

 

[MarcusKillion]

I usually like my beers after about a month bottled

 

[jdelatte]

Bottled tonight, homebrew next to a glass of budlight, my wife wanted a light beer so I gave her one, about 5.2 abv

 

[Bob]

Good job! It's tough to brew such a light beer.

Next time, skip the CaraPils. Using it doesn't make any sense in a recipe like this.

Cheers,

Bob

 

[jdelatte]

I didnt use it in this one, planned for next one but if this comes out good definitely not using it

 

[Bob]

Do you understand why I said it doesn't make sense? Put on your thinking cap.

Bob

 

[jdelatte]

Nope, still new to homebrewing, see it in a lot of recipes and see people saying use it. For this beer i didnt use it

 

[Bob]

Okay, then let me run it down. It's so simple you'll laugh when you see it.

In a beer like this, you're looking for some characteristics: Low body, delicate flavor, minimal mouthfeel - all relative to "normal" craft beers. That's why you add adjuncts like corn and rice, to make the beer lighter.

CaraPils and equivalents add body and mouthfeel.

So on the one hand you're deliberately reducing body and mouthfeel, and then by adding CaraPils you're putting it right back. On no planet does that make any sort of sense, right?

Now, some will tell you to add it because of increased foam formation and retention. Those brewers are not technically wrong, but it's still not the best practice to approach a possible foam problem, at least in this case (in my opinion, any case, but that's a subject which has too great a potential for hijacking the thread). A better approach is to step the mash (see this recipe for a simple technique) or to add approximately 4 ounces of wheat malt per five gallons to add in some enough protein matter to improve foam but not enough to promote haze.

Make sense?

Bob

 

[jdelatte]

Makes a lot of sense, I did some research myself and found pretty much the same thing, thanks for the info always curious to learn more about this hobby

 

[MarcusKillion]

Actually I think the carapils adds in some mouth feel and head retention although i just added it because I had that amount and needed to use it up .

 

[jdelatte]

Well I plan on making a brew with it so I know the difference of with and without

 

[stpug]

View attachment 150003

Bottled tonight, homebrew next to a glass of budlight, my wife wanted a light beer so I gave her one, about 5.2 abv

You may want to double-check your hydrometer reading because in the photo you posted you hydrometer looks like it's sitting on the bottom of the sample tube

 

[jdelatte]

It wasnt, i was a little short on my sample but it was floating, cant tell from pic it had plenty room under it, even my kid asked the same thing until I showed him

 

[stpug]

PHHHEEEEWWW! Close call

Just thought I'd mention it. BTW, I actually have a cream ale in fermenter that used crystal hops at 10 and 1 minutes plus Cluster for bittering. The grainbill is "similar but different" from yours but the coincidence is fun (I guess). I primarily made this to build up a stock of Mangrove Jack's British Ale yeast (well..... and to drink the beer too ).

Cheers!

 

[jdelatte]

This brew was just 8lbs 2 row and 1 lbs flaked rice with saaz hops. Wife wanted light and I tried something easy for first ag beer. Did a cream ale extract kit and she liked it so trying to come up with something to add to what I did, maybe different hops and add some different grain

 

[Bob]

Actually I think the carapils adds in some mouth feel and head retention although i just added it because I had that amount and needed to use it up .

That's rather my point - Of course it does! The problem is you're taking away malt and putting in adjuncts to reduce mouthfeel, then you're adding it all back again with CaraPils. That's self-defeating!

If you want mouthfeel, change your mash scheme or refrain from swapping malt for adjuncts. "But," I hear you argue. "If I do that I won't have Cream Ale!" All I can say is, "Tough! If you want Cream Ale, brew Cream Ale. If you want a beer with full mouthfeel and presence, maybe you don't really want Cream Ale." Seriously, doing a two-step mash with a protein rest and a high saccharification rest - like 155-157F - is how the brewers of Pre-Prohibition American pilsners developed what they called vollmundigkeit and what we call mouthfeel. And since Cream Ale is simply a bog-standard pre-Pro pils fermented differently, there you go!

If you have foam problems, add in 4 oz of wheat malt (as pale as you can find) per five gallons.

I wish brewers would stop just reflexively dropping CaraPils in their mashes.

Bob

 

[Bob]

This brew was just 8lbs 2 row and 1 lbs flaked rice with saaz hops. Wife wanted light and I tried something easy for first ag beer. Did a cream ale extract kit and she liked it so trying to come up with something to add to what I did, maybe different hops and add some different grain

Keeping it simple is the way to go when you're trying something new!

Bob

 

[MarcusKillion]

I do not think it was enough carapils to add anything much . Just needed to use it up so I tossed it in and since I did toss it in I also had to include it in the recipe . Not sure, but I doubt that a few ounces is enough to notice ??.

" vollmundigkeit " what kind of language is that to use on a family friendly forum ? do you kiss your mother with that filthy mouth ?

 

[Bob]

I do not think it was enough carapils to add anything much . Just needed to use it up so I tossed it in and since I did toss it in I also had to include it in the recipe . Not sure, but I doubt that a few ounces is enough to notice ??.

Which begs the question, "Why use it at all?" I understand the need to use it up, but...

" vollmundigkeit " what kind of language is that to use on a family friendly forum ? do you kiss your mother with that filthy mouth ?

 

[MarcusKillion]

Well I do not know why to use it at all . maybe a little mouth feel would be good ? Not too much if you want a lawnmower beer of course . I actually never thought about it changing the mouth feel . It was just an after thought after you posted about it . I am really in it for the taste any way no matter how else it comes out .
I gotta say that this stuff is starting to taste quite good . At first it was just good but after aging a bit it is getting much better . I just opened one , am drinking it now and it is tasty stuff. The " hopped up " version I made is tasting even better with age also. I think with Cream of three crops and these two I am going to be drinking a lot of light blondes . I just need to hop and malt one up more for winter time .

"vollmundigkeit" still cracks me up . I gotta look that one up

 

[MarcusKillion]

Well I must say between the two beers I made that day , this one and hopped up three crops , I really like the hopped up one best I think although both are good . The hoped up one does not really have a lot of hop flavor that I can tell but tastes like the cream of three crops without the flavor from corn since it has less and just a different flavor I guess from the hops . Very good .

So this weekend I am making the hopped up version and will be adding in 5 ounces of carapils to get in a little mouth feel without changing flavor in honor of Bob because he loves mouth feel in his cream ale .

 

[Bob]

Vollmundigkeit is a word I learned researching Brooklyn lagers from the early 20th century. The brewmasters of those breweries - all German, of course - would manipulate their mashes to enhance mouthfeel. Like many foreign-language terms, there's no direct, literal English translation. The closest I can get is "the feeling you get in your mouth".

When you get down to brass tacks, there's not a lot of difference between a well-crafted Cream Ale and a well-crafted Classic American Pilsner. Same ingredients, same techniques, except for the yeast and how the primary ferment is managed. They didn't use CaraPils, so there's no reason why we should, especially if we're brewing a beer with grist ingredients which are specifically put in the recipe to lighten the flavor, color, and body. I highly suggest you add temperature-controlled mashing to your repertoire. It's not hard, doesn't require any extra equipment, and adds yet another weapon to your brewing arsenal.

In your hopped-up version, I think CaraPils might add an extra bit of "oomph". However, before I added CaraPils I'd start subbing malt for the adjuncts.

I'm glad you're having fun!

Bob

 

[MarcusKillion]

I thought you made that word up for sure .
I do not know a whole lot about what adds what when you add it in I just try something and see how it tastes . I figured the carapils would not change the flavor and add in a bit of mouth feel which I would like for a cold weather beer . How ever if I find something that also will do the same thing I would use it .

So from your post I guess adding in more 2 row would accomplish the same thing ? Would that not make it more malty tasting than carapils would ?

I actually bought equal parts 2 row and marris otter for this weekend batch . thought that might give it a nice flavor and some more mouth feel . Never used MO before as it is 2.25 Lb as opposed to 1.50 for 2 row. I was just joking with you about putting in 5 oz carapils .

 

[Bob]

If you're looking for more body/mouthfeel, you're better off ditching the adjuncts and swapping in malt. Of course, that's my opinion.

Bob

 

[MarcusKillion]

So what do think about an extra pound of 2 row with a 50/50 marris otter , 2 row which I guess would be about 5 Lb 2 row and 4 MO ?

Might also drop in a little cascade hops I have sitting there just to bump up the hop flavor a little to blend with the extra malt .

just want to mix it up a bit for winter but not change it too much

I do like malt . Big fan of old English 800 and Colt 45 double malt

 

[Bob]

I'd go with a simple grist consisting of 100% pale malt (your 2-row/MO blend). I wouldn't add Cascades, as Cascades are much more strongly flavored than the other varieties. I'd up those amounts instead for more flavor/aroma.

Bob

 

[MarcusKillion]

sounds like a good idea . I am going to brew today i think . also got a muntons Best Bitter no boil kit . thought I might try it out for a quick to drink beer . Probably will not like it but it is worth a try I guess

I never made a beer my sink did not like

 

[MarcusKillion]

Here is another idea for this and the hopped up and cream of three crops and perhaps other blondes.
I put a fresh off my plant Columbus hop in a glass of cream of three crops and stirred it up and let it set for a few minutes . It was great . then tried Crystal cream and hopped up . Really tasty .
I plan on making some next time with columbus in as a flavoring hop .
also got some fresh columbus on the way to make a SMaSH