Critique My Recipe: Kettle Sour Raspberry Saison

[bigdawg86]

So I am taking a stab at my own recipe and am curious if everything looks OK or if there are suggestions to be made: Particularly on my yeast and hops selection. my LBS has good selection of dry and liquid yeast. I am fine with dry or liquid yeast but. I also have TYB Voss Kviek at home. For hops I figure since I am doing a fruit forward beer I would be better served with low IBU's (Similar to the kettle sour margarita gose from @Morrey). I am open to different hops if something would better compliment the raspberries.

5.5g batch, BIAB, OG ballpark of 1.074

9lb Pilsner
1lb Vienna
1lb White Wheat
1lb Dextrose
Mash at 148°, flash boil to pasturize.
Lactic acid to 4.5pH then Kettle Sour with Lactobacillus Plantarum for target 3.4 pH
Once at target begin 90 minute boil, add 1oz Saaz @ 60 Minutes (approx 10.5 IBU)

Ferment as usual (Belle Dry Saison?). Once terminal gravity rack onto 3lbs raspberry puree x 7-10 days then keg.

 

[cactusgarrett]

Looks decent; don't know about the inclusion of vienna, though. Seems like it could just get lost in the sourness & raspberry, ultimately.

 

[atoughram]

I just did a kettle sour

Mine was 87% 2 row, 7% Munich 20L, and the rest dextrine.

As was mentioned, focus on the sour & raspberry.

I wouldnt use Saison yeast, but something very neutral like US-05/WLP-001/Chico Yeast.

Here was my recipe - although I took two pounds of two row out and added acidulated malt to bring the ph up in the next version. My pH only got to 3.66 after 40 hours on the lacto without the acidulated malt. 3.66 is good but 3.5 would have been better.

https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/612676/lemondrop-blonde-sour-ale-v2

 

[bigdawg86]

I just did a kettle sour

Mine was 87% 2 row, 7% Munich 20L, and the rest dextrine.

As was mentioned, focus on the sour & raspberry.

I wouldnt use Saison yeast, but something very neutral like US-05/WLP-001/Chico Yeast.

Here was my recipe - although I took two pounds of two row out and added acidulated malt to bring the ph up in the next version. My pH only got to 3.66 after 40 hours on the lacto without the acidulated malt. 3.66 is good but 3.5 would have been better.

https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/612676/lemondrop-blonde-sour-ale-v2

Ya I wasn't sure if I should just do a neutral yeast or not... but that makes sense since the "spice" of a saison yeast may conflict with the flavor of the fruit. US05 never fails but I also have some THB Vermont, Midwestern Ale, and Dry Belgian.

Maybe the vermont can add to the fruity profile of the beer... the dry belgian is somewhat neutral but will make for a wicked dry beer as last beer I used was a stout and it took it from 1.118 to last I checked 1.012 in secondary and it was still bubbling.

 

[sancycling]

bigdawg86,
I brewed something similar without the fruit. I did mainly Pilsen, Rye and a bit of Carapils, hops were Sorachi Ace to about 25IBU, I did use the Belle Saison Yeast that I really like.

I think your grainbill looks good, Saaz is tasty.

Some observations I would make in your process:
1) Make sure you do reduce the PH to 4.5 with lactic acid, that will ensure no butyric acid (vomit). I've missed this step before and it's not nice. As a note, I've done half lactic and have citric with nice results.
2) Purge your kettle with CO2 after your first fast boil. You want to make sure you get most O2 out. I use my aeration stone connected to the CO2 tank.
3) If possible keep your kettle at 100F to speed up the fast souring. Monitor the PH.

Good luck. It should be nice and tasty.

 

[cactusgarrett]

As other did, I was originally going to suggest a more neutral yeast strain, but didn't want to if you were set on keeping it along the lines of a saison.

Brulosophy did a thing on kettle souring and oxygen. There was a noticeable difference during the souring process, but ultimately the results were statistically non-different. There's some merit into not considering O2 as the boogyman it once was thought to be in this regard. Early on I took great care to avoid O2 - transferred the wort to a keg and purged with CO2 during souring. However, with this new info, I'll try my hand at relaxing my process a bit; see if the results are similar.

Also, from what I understand, plantarum works well at lower temps than 100°F, so I don't think you need to go thru the effort of maintaining that high of a temp. I'd shoot for 70-90°F, myself. Higher temps are necessary for other strains of LAB (brevis, d., etc.).

 

[bigdawg86]

So I decided to go with TYB Voss Kviek yeast for this brew for a few reasons.
1.) I already have it, it's probably 6 -8 months old and I think this will be it's 4th use, but I've seen yeast only held in the fridge revitalized after 1 year with appropriate starter usage.
2.) It actually has a pretty neutral profile. I have used it for a black IPA, saison x 2, and brown ale... all turned out really good.
3.) It still sticks with the saison-esque profile which should go well with the planned beer... " a light earthy spiciness, marked tartness and unique ester profile of orange peel."

 

[bigdawg86]

I just did a kettle sour

https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/612676/lemondrop-blonde-sour-ale-v2

How did the lemondrop come through? I am also going to my LBS tomorrow with anticipation of doing a citrus summer NEIPA with lemon drop hops (also citra and el dorado for late bittering)

 

[atoughram]

Its definitely lemony - goes well with the sour. It's similar to a lemon cooler but with a hint of hops.

I got the Lemondrop hops from Hops Direct

https://hopsdirect.com/

 

[bigdawg86]

So the my OG ended up a littler lower at 1.062 post boil, no biggie. I pitched the Voss Kviek and and set my fermwrap to 90°. That badboy free rose to 100° was down to 1.010 with krausen dropped in less than 48 hours. Hydrometer sample was a pleasant tart (I ended up choosing pH 3.6 so wife would like it better) with citrus notes and no obvious off flavors. The beer is done, but I am going to leave it 5 days before cold crash and racking onto the fruit.

 

[bigdawg86]

Ok... my gravity from the last post was just a estimate from floating the hydrometer in the fermentor. Today I dropped sample down to calibrated temp of 60° and got 1.012 FG. That's 81% attenuation which is exactly what the max attenuation I have seen from my other batches with the same yeast. Technically this is a "Saison yeast" but it is not a monster attenuator from my experience, so Its been 4 days exactly. Is there any reason why I shouldn't rack to my secondary fruit addition at this point?

What about throwing in champagne yeast for kicks to dry it out?

Tasting the hydrometer sample, it reminds of a mimosa as is... I think it will be incredible once it sits on the fruit.

 

[Calaeb]

how did this end up turning out?

 

[bigdawg86]

It turned out pretty good! The raspberry naturally has a little bit of bitterness to it so that is subtle in the finish. I would probably go with a different fruit next time, but my wife loves it. The aroma is unreal raspberries. Very refreshing. Much hazier than expected.

I may do a batch without fruit as the base beer fermented with voss kviek tasted like a mimosa.