Critique Black IPA recipe please

[jessej122]

I know I'm gonna need to scale the hops back because I want it about 40-50 IBUs but here it is....
10 lbs Anerican 2 row
1 lb Crystal 40
8 oz Midnight wheat
4oz chocolate malt
Mash @ 153 degrees
1 oz nugget @15
1 oz Columbus @ 15 .5 oz Amarillo @ 50 min
1 oz Amarillo flameout
Dry hop 1 oz Amarillo for 7 day

 

[jessej122]

Also thinking if using Safale us-05

This is our first all grain brew so wanted to do something a little different! As always thanks and cheers

 

[jessej122]

Also a 5 gal batch

 

[ilv4xn]

Here is the recipe I have been making every month for the past 5mo.

CDA 5/19

19.3 *2-Row
1.12 *Carafa II
1. *Midnight Wheat
1.12. *Crystal 10

2. *Oz. *Magnum at 60
.3 * Amarillo at 10
.3 * Cascade at 10
.3 * Simcoe at 10
.3 * Amarillo at 5
.3 * Cascade at 5
.3 * Simcoe at 5
.4 * Amarillo at 0
.4 * Cascade at 0
.4 * Simcoe at 0

London ESB 1968

Dough in 175 7gal*
Mash 153 60min
Spage 8.5gal*
60 min boil
SG 1.06

Pitched on CDA yeast cake
London ESB 1968 from 4/21

 

[ilv4xn]

I don't see any bittering hops in your recipe.

 

[kombat]

What do you mean? The 2 oz of Magnum @ 60 will certainly bitter it up.

EDIT: Ah, I suspect you were referring to the OP, rather than the poster immediately above your post. In that case, the OP's recipe does include a half-ounce of Amarillo at 50 minutes, but you're right, that won't be enough to impart much of a classic IPA bitterness.

 

[jessej122]

You don't think the Columbus and nugget will bitter from the later addition I didn't wanna boil them for the 60 thinkin if I didn't scale back it would be way to bitter

 

[peterj]

I know I'm gonna need to scale the hops back because I want it about 40-50 IBUs but here it is....
10 lbs Anerican 2 row
1 lb Crystal 40
8 oz Midnight wheat
4oz chocolate malt
Mash @ 153 degrees
1 oz nugget @15
1 oz Columbus @ 15 .5 oz Amarillo @ 50 min
1 oz Amarillo flameout
Dry hop 1 oz Amarillo for 7 day

Grainbill looks pretty solid to me. I would add more hops though. My thinking is that you need to add more hops than a regular IPA because the roast takes a little away from the hops. I just brewed a Black IPA and it's probably the best beer I've made. Here's the recipe:

Brew Method: All Grain
Style Name: American IPA
Boil Time: 60 min
Batch Size: 5.25 gallons (ending kettle volume)
Boil Size: 7.25 gallons
Efficiency: 77.5% (ending kettle)

STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.070
Final Gravity: 1.015
ABV (standard): 7.23%
IBU (rager): 103.52
SRM (morey): 34.35

FERMENTABLES:
11.5 lb - American - Pale 2-Row (88.5%)
0.5 lb - American - Caramel / Crystal 80L (3.8%)
0.5 lb - United Kingdom - Chocolate (3.8%)
0.5 lb - German - De-Husked Caraf III (3.8%)

HOPS:
1 oz - Chinook, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.1, Use: Boil for 60 min, IBU: 53
1 oz - Simcoe, Type: Pellet, AA: 13, Use: Boil for 20 min, IBU: 19.35
1 oz - Chinook, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.1, Use: Boil for 15 min, IBU: 14.15
1 oz - Centennial, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.5, Use: Boil for 10 min, IBU: 11.9
1 oz - Cascade, Type: Pellet, AA: 7.2, Use: Boil for 5 min, IBU: 5.12
1 oz - Centennial, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.5, Use: Boil for 0 min
0.5 oz - Centennial/Cascade extras, Type: Pellet, AA: 11, Use: Boil for 0 min
1 oz - Cascade, Type: Pellet, AA: 7.2, Use: Dry Hop for 7 days
1 oz - Chinook, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.1, Use: Dry Hop for 7 days
1 oz - Chinook, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.1, Use: Dry Hop for 7 days

MASH GUIDELINES:
1) Temperature, Temp: 152 F, Time: 60 min, Amount: 17 qt, Strike temp = 165.3
2) Infusion, Temp: 212 F, Time: 5 min, Amount: 5 qt, Mashout
3) Sparge, Temp: 185 F, Time: 5 min, Amount: 14 qt

OTHER INGREDIENTS:
1 each - Whirlfloc, Time: 15 min, Type: Fining, Use: Boil

YEAST:
Fermentis / Safale - Safale - American Ale Yeast US-05

 

[Brulosopher]

I don't see any bittering hops in your recipe.

I'm assuming he meant .2 oz

 

[jessej122]

I like your recipe but I only have a 7 gallon kettle for now

 

[jessej122]

Like I said its our first time and I have alot of question

 

[jessej122]

Think I should just hop it like I would a regular IPA?

 

[tgmartin000]

I'd ditch the chocolate, personally, and add 4 oz carafa III. But I don't prefer any roast notes in my black ipa.

 

[jessej122]

I will do that, I figured ill just hop it up like I do my regular IPAs

 

[Clef051]

I'd switch the midnight wheat to 4oz and do 8oz of carafa III. I'm thinking all the chocolate malts in there may fight with the hops.

I'd go something like this:

10 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 85.1 %
1 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM) Grain 2 8.5 %
8.0 oz Carafa III (525.0 SRM) Grain 3 4.3 %
4.0 oz Chocolate Wheat Malt (400.0 SRM) Grain 4 2.1 %
0.75 oz Nugget [13.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 5 35.9 IBUs
0.50 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 6 12.8 IBUs
2.00 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 7 0.0 IBUs
1.0 pkg Safale American (DCL/Fermentis #US-05) [50.28 ml] Yeast 8 -
2.00 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 9 0.0 IBUs

Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.061 SG Measured Original Gravity: 1.046 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.011 SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.010 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 6.5 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 4.7 %
Bitterness: 48.6 IBUs Calories: 151.6 kcal/12oz
Est Color: 31.3 SRM

 

[jessej122]

Thanks for the recipe but if like to have it with a higher alc about 6.5 actually should I just increase the malt?

 

[jessej122]

Think I can bump the 2 row up to about 12 lbs or add some sugar?

 

[Clef051]

I'd just add more malt, at that gravity much more and I would probably do corn sugar. Malt will give you a slightly thicker beer, sugar would thin it out. Depends what you want the beer to be. Going by beersmith adding one pound sugar would be about equal to two pounds of malt, depending on your efficiency.

You will also want to add more hops to keep the IBU's the same.

 

[jessej122]

I tried to plug it in beersmith and couldn't find black IPA or cascadian ale for plugging the recipe just got the 21 day trial

 

[jessej122]

All of are awesome and thanks for all help please keep the advice coming

 

[SteveLikesBeer]

I used chocolate malt in my black ipa and it works fine, but you do have to overcome it with the hops.

I'd also recommend moving the hops out more. You want to get more flavor from the hops so splitting them up a bit could help with that. The later the addition the more flavor (from my understanding). The earlier, the more bittering.

 

[SteveLikesBeer]

The bitterness ratio I used was 0.947 (IBU/SG). SG was 1.074 and IBU was 70. I used:

1 oz centennial at 60
.75 oz cascade at 25
.5 oz simcoe at 10
1 oz cascade at 0
1.8 oz dry hop 7 days.

 

[Clef051]

I tried to plug it in beersmith and couldn't find black IPA or cascadian ale for plugging the recipe just got the 21 day trial

There isn't a category for black IPA's on there. I just use the ipa category, the color is just way off the charts for it.

 

[jessej122]

When I plug it in beersmith it is only giving my a 3.8 alcohol percentage and the color is light am I using to little grains?

 

[peterj]

When I plug it in beersmith it is only giving my a 3.8 alcohol percentage and the color is light am I using to little grains?

No, the recipe should be fine. Make sure you're putting in the right grains and that all of your settings are correct like efficiency, units, amounts, etc.

 

[jessej122]

So it's gonna be stout black? Beersmith must be wrong

 

[Clef051]

So it's gonna be stout black? Beersmith must be wrong

Yeah or close too it. I aim for about 30srm. Usually if you have the carafa III at about 5% of the grain bill you will be close too that.

One of the numbers could be off somewhere in beersmith and that is why your percentages are off.

What do you have for a recipe now?

 

[jessej122]

10 lbs 2 row American
1 lb crystal 40
4 oz midnight wheat
8 oz carafa lll

1oz Columbus 60 min
1 oz citra 40 min
1oz citra flameout
1oz Amarillo flame out
Dry hop 1 oz citra and Amarillo 7 days
Safale Us-o5
Mash @ 152-153
5 gallon batch

 

[jessej122]

Maybe bump the midnight to 8oz to make sure color is there

 

[jessej122]

What do you think?

 

[kombat]

No, you should be fine with the 8 oz of Carafa III. I'd recommend omitting it from the mash, and adding it during the sparge.

 

[peterj]

10 lbs 2 row American
1 lb crystal 40
4 oz midnight wheat
8 oz carafa lll

1oz Columbus 60 min
1 oz citra 40 min
1oz citra flameout
1oz Amarillo flame out
Dry hop 1 oz citra and Amarillo 7 days
Safale Us-o5
Mash @ 152-153
5 gallon batch

I would move the 40 min Citra to somewhere in the 10-20 range. It's at almost 110 IBU with that hop schedule which is a little high. 40 minutes isn't a great time to add hops. You lose most of the flavor and aroma but you don't get the most efficient alpha acid utilization. I plugged your recipe into Brewer's Friend since you seem to be having trouble with beersmith. I made some assumptions about your efficiency, attenuation, boiloff, etc. This is it with the citra moved to 10 minutes:

Brew Method: All Grain
Style Name: American IPA
Boil Time: 60 min
Batch Size: 5 gallons (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 6.5 gallons
Boil Gravity: 1.046
Efficiency: 70% (brew house)

STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.060
Final Gravity: 1.014
ABV (standard): 6.06%
IBU (rager): 80.29
SRM (morey): 31.7

FERMENTABLES:
10 lb - American - Pale 2-Row (85.1%)
1 lb - American - Caramel / Crystal 40L (8.5%)
0.25 lb - American - Midnight Wheat Malt (2.1%)
0.5 lb - German - De-Husked Caraf III (4.3%)

HOPS:
1 oz - Columbus, Type: Pellet, AA: 15, Use: Boil for 60 min, IBU: 69.25
1 oz - Citra, Type: Pellet, AA: 11, Use: Boil for 10 min, IBU: 11.04
1 oz - Citra, Type: Pellet, AA: 11, Use: Boil for 0 min
1 oz - Amarillo, Type: Pellet, AA: 8.6, Use: Boil for 0 min
1 oz - Citra, Type: Pellet, AA: 11, Use: Dry Hop for 7 days
1 oz - Amarillo, Type: Pellet, AA: 8.6, Use: Dry Hop for 7 days

YEAST:
Fermentis / Safale - Safale - American Ale Yeast US-05
Starter: No
Form: Dry
Attenuation (custom): 77%
Flocculation: Medium
Optimum Temp: 59 - 75 F

31 SRM will be plenty black. I would leave it. If it were mine, I would cut the bittering addition to 0.5 oz and make up the IBUs with late kettle additions of hops (in the last 20 minutes). But either way, it should be a tasty brew.

 

[jessej122]

Awesome thanks alot everyone

 

[ilv4xn]

+1 for Peter
Moving the hops out the the end of the boil will add a ton flavor and aroma.

 

[jessej122]

Ok well ill go with .5 oz at 60 add the in the last 10 and flameout,if I don't mash the carafa won't it take away from my OG?

 

[peterj]

Ok well ill go with .5 oz at 60 add the in the last 10 and flameout,if I don't mash the carafa won't it take away from my OG?

Roasted malts are more for color and flavor and don't have many sugars that need to be converted. Same with crystal malts. That's why you can steep them which is basically what you would be doing by adding them to the sparge only.

Edit: People omit them from the mash sometimes in beers like this to get the color contribution but reduce the roasty astringency that can come from mashing these grains the full time. I've never done it myself because I prefer a little bit of that roast character in my Black IPAs.

 

[kombat]

Edit: People omit them from the mash sometimes in beers like this to get the color contribution but reduce the roasty astringency that can come from mashing these grains the full time.

Thanks peter, I probably should have mentioned that in my post, but you're exactly right. I used this technique in a Black IPA I brewed myself just a couple of months ago, and it turned out perfectly - pitch black, and no roast character at all.

 

[jessej122]

So I should just sparge carafa and midnight wheat? Or the crystal also?

 

[jessej122]

I wanna keep the abv. Atleast 6

 

[kombat]

So I should just sparge carafa and midnight wheat? Or the crystal also?

You could hold the crystal off till the sparge, too (since it doesn't need to convert), but I wouldn't bother. I'd mash everything except the dark grains, then add the dark grains in during the sparge. Either way would work though.