Creating starter wort while brewing BIAB batch?

[ODI3]

Is it reasonable to:
Add extra grain and water to a batch, boil long enough to sterilize wort then remove low gravity starter wort from batch and freeze starter wort in 500 ml "freezer approved" glass mason Jars. (be sure to let jar cool on counter with lid on before freezing)

When starter wort is needed, let jar thaw on counter for a day then use without boiling?

My thoughts:
Since wort was boiled, most stuff would be boiled out.
Since wort was stored frozen, there is no oxygen for botulism to grow.

Here is a quick demo to calculate how much extra grain to add (in percent) and at what water level the boil should be at when you remove starter wort.

Submit to calculator:
Your target final gravity
Your target final water volume,
Your wanted starter wort gravity
Your wanted starter wort volume

Script will display in far right column at what liquid volume level you should remove your starter wort from the kettle and by how much (in percent) you should increase your grain bill to make up for the starter wort.


https://docs.google.com/open?id=0Bx_nygQJGds3TExDNTJzdUFDYWM
Note: I have added this demo to the right of the amazing EZ brewing water calculator just for convience sake.


Also, here is a link to the mason jar faq describing that they are freezer safe
http://www.bernardin.ca/pages/faq/33.php#46


What do you all think?

 

[Brew-Jay]

Have there been no replies to this? I was just wondering the same thing. I want to "steal" a couple if liters during my next brew for the subsequent starter. I'm even willing to re-boil when it's starter time. Is this a feasible method to replace the need for DME?

 

[conneryis007]

I do it the other way around. I don't make extra but I do collect what ever is left in the mash tun, plus squeezing the grains to store in the freezer in plastic "to-go" containers or mason jars. I boil and then cool right before making my starter. As mine is mostly collected from the second runnings it usually needs a little bit of DME to boost it up to 1.04, but not much.

You could make extra to do your starters for the next batch, just takes the calculations you were mentioning. I would just freeze as is and then do the boiling at starter making time.

 

[duboman]

Can you do this? Yes.

Is it the most beneficial wort to use for a starter? Perhaps.

The idea behind a starter is to grow the yeast up to the most Healthy pitch rate. You ideally want something no stronger than 1.040 so that would be your goal. Quantity wise it really doesn't matter as every starter you make could require a different volume or multiple steps so you could "harvest" as much wort per batch you want.

IMO and with out specific knowledge ill also assume you would not want a lot of dark or specialty grains in your starter.

Most, me included, use a extra light or even pilsner DME for their starters.

Just my thoughts.....

 

[ruddyscot]

Need Advice, Please Don't know where to post this-- Will the butterfat content in Cocoa and other chocolates hinder my final product? I was going to put some hershey's in a double choc. stout, but . . . .
contents also mention hydrogenated Veggie oils and carrageenan.
thanks

 

[inhousebrew]

You can do it this way but you still need to boil before pitching yeast just to be safe. However, you can collect starter wort in mason jars and seal it in a pressure cooker. This will sterilize everything and seal the jars. With this method you do not need to boil before pitching yeast.

 

[ODI3]

If the liquid is boiled then frozen in a mason jar, why would I need to reboil?

 

[elproducto]

I do this BIAB on the stove. I make 3 gallons of 1.040 starter wort and freeze in sanitized 2L pop bottles.

 

[inhousebrew]

If the liquid is boiled then frozen in a mason jar, why would I need to reboil?

That is what I was told when I asked this same question a while back. I couldn't find my thread but with a quick search this is a quote of what I've found:

"This does not kill spores. Bacteria spores (like botulism) need to be exposed to temps>250F to kill them. Since wort is a low-acid food, it needs to be properly canned under pressure to prevent botulism from growing in the sealed jar. If you cannot pressure can, freezing is the safer method since it effectively makes unavailable the water necessary for the bacteria to grow, although it doesn't kill them so boiling is still necessary before pitching in the yeast."

I guess it falls under the better safe than sorry idea. Maybe not completely necessary, but probably not a bad idea. That is why I went with the pressure canning route. Plus, when canning you can store them on the self and not suck up a ton of storage space in the freezer. I've got 22 pint size mason jars ready for yeast just sitting in the basement.

 

[BigRob]

Wort is simply not acidic enough to inhibit growth of c. botulinum, and 212F(100C) is not hot enough to destroy all the spores. Given that it prefers an anaerobic environment too, boiled wort that's devoid of oxygen and a sealed jar is asking for problems.

Also, the website you linked is for no-cook jams and such, you seem to be mixing 2 forms of food preservation in a way that is counterproductive. Freezing starter wort in the way you describe will likely compromise the vacuum seal of the lid, allowing potential contamination into the starter wort as you thaw it. Which given you need to thaw that starter completely and allow it to rise to 75F-80F for pitchable starter temps, is going to allow bacteria a head start.

The reality of it all, is that it's very quick to cool 500mL to 4L of starter wort in your sink with just a cold water bath. So you need to decide if the cost of a pressure canner to make ready-to-use starter from a jar outweighs the 10-15 minutes you spend re-boiling frozen wort/DME. I see no point freezing in glass, plastic ziplocs or pop bottles work just as well, and they don't shatter if you dunk them in warm water to thaw the starter before boiling.