I wouldn't and wont be worried abut infection.. as sugars shouldn't be any worse than a soda or something and they don't get infected if everything is clean.
I see why, I either ended up with off tasting beer (The hops seem to be the culprit giving a stringent flavor when the Alcohol is boiled off)
Tried to neuter part of my Honey Porter batch for a good friend of mine who doesn't/can't tolerate alcohol but loves beer. I sprung for the White labs test, and just got my results back- failure. It reduced from 5.6%(calculated) to 5.45%(actual test%). I think I know where I goofed. My technique was to heat the gallon on the stove to 180*, then put it in the oven set on 170* for 1/2 hour. My guess is that the 170* setting may be even a lower temp. than stated. So, I'm going to try again with my next batch, 1st by checking the oven temp, then by raising the oven temp to 180*.
Interesting enough, when I checked the SG of the treated sample, it had only risen 2 points(1.016 vs. 1.014) which does fit with what the lab told me. So, I think I'm not going to shell out another $30, but will rely on the SG to tell me if I was successful.
This is a fascinating thread. We have this beer cheese dip we make, and SWMBO was too worried to bring it to a family picnic with children.
I wondered if boiling would work, but we just made another dip.
And yet wine is used in sauces and no concern is had for the children when it is given that alcohol remains. Being childless, my opinion does not matter, but kids used to drink small beers and were okay. I am sure in moderation it will not injure your kids to have that small amount of alcohol from beer-cheese (which frankly sounds delicious). Maybe warn other parents that there is beer in there?
Looking back this is not being accusational. Just something I notice.
Awesome post, sparked lots of ideas...
I like where CDGoin was going with his method, a home method to maximize malt/beer flavor without getting rid of all aromatics or hop flavor or leaving too sweet.
So, here's my obviously overcomplicated thought for a modification on ideas so far:
For 5 gal-
Heated beer
Brew 2.5 gal of a very heavy but low alcohol beer 2-5 % ABV with NO hops, ferment to completion. Heat to approx 175-185ish 2-3 hours to remove as much alcohol as possible (alcohol and water are a positive azeotrope - should only become a problem when getting pure alcohol, not pure water, 3-4 hours at 180F should remove 99% of alcohol from beer depending on conditions)
Thinned Beer
Take above and add RO or distilled water to make 5Gal, cutting remaining ABV in half depending on previous boil time.
Use one of the above in place of water to brew very low gravity beer recipe (say normally 1-3% ABV ) and either stop ferment early (leaving somewhat sweet beer) or ferment to finish and heat again, this time with hop schedule as if brewing from scratch. (with adjustments for gravity/bitternes)
Force carb with Keg or maybe CO2 charger so no alcohol is added...
One or more rounds of thin beer, heated beer, use as base for more thin beer or use to cut higher ABV beer etc. rinse, repeat, add hops only at the very last boil - might give a fairly good "beer" with less than .5% ABV.
If someone had health issues and really wanted to put the time into brewing and blending, I think a "craft brew level" low alcohol beer could be done and then some!
FWIW, if it's an issue with a recovering Alcoholic, I have close friends in recovery - most people in recovery from alcohol consider even 1-2% alcohol as ALCOHOL... I just share other hobbies with them.
Tried to neuter part of my Honey Porter batch for a good friend of mine who doesn't/can't tolerate alcohol but loves beer. I sprung for the White labs test, and just got my results back- failure. It reduced from 5.6%(calculated) to 5.45%(actual test%). I think I know where I goofed. My technique was to heat the gallon on the stove to 180*, then put it in the oven set on 170* for 1/2 hour. My guess is that the 170* setting may be even a lower temp. than stated. So, I'm going to try again with my next batch, 1st by checking the oven temp, then by raising the oven temp to 180*.
Interesting enough, when I checked the SG of the treated sample, it had only risen 2 points(1.016 vs. 1.014) which does fit with what the lab told me. So, I think I'm not going to shell out another $30, but will rely on the SG to tell me if I was successful.
I wonder how much alcohol would be left after an hour boil. I also wonder how different the hop flavor/bitterness/mouthfeel would come across with the alcohol removed. It definitely would be heavier. I do not even drink NA beers but may consider a 1 gal batch of this method just because. Actual AVB may be determinable by OG/FG/post bittering FG but that math may be beyond me.
Cool thought.
I have now used this method with parts of 4 other batches to create a Christmas giftpack for my friend. The difference is that I check the temp of the beer in the oven and adjust the oven temp accordingly to keep it in the 170* range. Setting for my oven usually has to be 195-200 to keep the beer at proper temp. SG rises appropriately when completed.
I've neutered a Scotch ale, an Altbier, a Graf, and a Vienna lager. Better palates might be able to tell a difference in flavor between neutered and untouched, but I can't. I consider this a success. I would love to recheck with the Whitelabs kit, but I'm not shelling out another $35.
Interesting, but kinda like suckin a nipple thru a nightgown.
FWIW, I found several notes on alcohol evap from cooking food...beware the comments by people who say it can't cook off due to azeotropes, I'm not 100%, but I think they are mistaken
Cook-off Chart
Wikipedia
I wouldn't say this is completely NA, but I'd peg it no higher than 1.5 - 2%. I only held the kettle at 179 for 20 minutes. Another 15 minutes and I'm pretty sure I'd have driven off the remainder of the alcohol.
I'd say for my puposes, the experiment was a success. I lowered the ABV to miniscule levels and maintained a taste profile that was very close to the original commercial version.
All in, a very good (non) beer...in case you're thirsty for something before church.
View attachment 2768
If the pastor is solidly teaching from the word of God we sure do : )
"solidly teaching from the word of God" ........... I'd rather like to know what "the word of God" is........ Thus far in my nearly 60 years, I have only encountered the words of men who claim to be speaking for God........... If you could direct me to the actual "word of God", I'd genuinely appreciate it............. Clearly you know something I don't!!
H.W.
Probably not the place for this...
But I'm glad I came across this thread! I have an uncle that doesn't drink alcohol but loves beer. I may just try experimenting a small batch someday! This should be fairly easy I think with an electric brewing set up. Just set your BK to 180 and let er buck for a bit
Since this thread has been resurrected a bit, has anyone solved the problem of carbonating NA beer outside of kegging?
I thought of pitching a new batch of yeast into a small amount of unfermented wort and adding it to each bottle with one of those corn sugar capsules so I don't get bottle bombs.
I drink and love craft beer but I'm limited to the number I drink otherwise I would get drunk. I'd love to go fishing and be able to down a six pack or so.
The way you've written this makes it sound like you're saying that you can't ever remove all the alcohol from the solution. Except for a trace amount, all the alcohol should be driven out of the beer.Clearly, azeotropes are an issue if you plan to par-boil your finished beer in order to eliminate the alcohol. You'll get most all of it, but never get quite all of it. (BTW, this is why it's impossible to buy anything higher than 190 proof liquor.)
It's not a problem. When I neuter part of a batch I prime the whole batch before drawing off 1 gallon to heat up. After it's finished with the heating process, I cool it down and add about 1/4 packet of rehydrated dry yeast before bottling. Has worked every time.
Hydrometers are commonly used to measure much smaller changes in alcohol content than that. They are how we determine how much alcohol was generated during fermentation. If the alcohol is removed, the gravity should be back up to where it was before fermentation. If you don't have the original gravity figure available, there are other ways.
If the alcohol is gone, a refractometer should agree with a hydrometer so that would be a quick and easy test. If they still disagree (as they should in the presence of alcohol), I believe the alcohol is still in there. In my experiment, neither reading changed so I am confident that none was removed.
I am not so sure about this. By boiling off alcohol, the SG should go up, yes, but it should not go back up to the starting gravity as sugars have been broken down and turned into alcohol which you then would have removed. I am guessing that from there the SG should be somewhere in the middle of starting and finishing gravity (so long as volume stays consistent). Unfortunately this is a job for math.
Here is my assumption on figuring all this out, I am working off the cuff here.
Normal math for figuring out alcohol content of beer.
ABV = (og fg) * 131.25
This should be how much alcohol is in the pre-neutered beer
<Neuter beer>
take specific gravity after it cools back to measurable temperature
now you have to figure out how many gravity points that your beer changed in the neutering process. Probably the best way is to determine the volume change from the process and add add in that much water to make the volumes even to come up with the new final specific gravity at the same volume. This should allow you to figure out how much the gravity actually changed. Then put this value in as the final gravity and calculate the ABV.
I am sure that you will find that the ABV has dropped, though I am unsure how much you will get out of it.
Then again I may be way off. And I welcome someone to let me know if I am because I do not want to give out bad information.
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