"Craft Brews" vs BMC... Who is better?

[bob1852]

Why on earth would you expect them to continue to pour millions of dollars in advertising dollars into a network that is actively promoting their competition? What rational company would do that? What rational person would EXPECT them to do that?

And remember, Sam and Dogfish didn't make a penny off of that show, because we all know that all craft breweries operate as non-profits, right?

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

Wow. I'm done with you after this last comment. Feel free to have the last word after this.

You say "I care about how it affects me personally." That is what I'm saying. The original poster was affected by a show he liked being cancelled. He believes this is because advertising dollars were pulled by a big brewer. This may not be true, but for the sake of argument, let say it is. He is well within his rights to stop buying their product. He is well within his rights to stop buying their product for whatever reason he chooses. Why is this so hard for you to understand.

Because it was Discovery networks CHOICE to say ok, or bless you.

But guess what, they are both BUSINESSES that choose strategy based on their bottom line not because they give a bless about you!

 

[Shooter]

I, for one, will no longer be buying beer brewed by bourdain!

Boy, this argument is so out of hand from all sides that I am with you. This Bourdain beer really appears to be the cause of so many of the world's problems!!!

Also, I'm adding this guy -> :fro: Because I like this guy!!!!

 

[Cheesy_Goodness]

I would participate more, but you're all being naive so it isn't worth my time

ipe: <- I like this guy, more people need to use this guy.

 

[drainbamage]

I at least give you guys credit for taking the whole "you don't appreciate the consistency of BMC" discussion in a new and equally frustrating direction. :cross:

 

[Shooter]

ipe: <- I like this guy, more people need to use this guy.

He smokes a pipe and is obviously a gentleman. Probably a man of letters if I had to guess and, undoubtedly, one gifted with a keen wit and the skill of elocution. It is a wonder he does not run for parliament!

Huzzah I say, Huzzah!!

 

[slym2none]

I just took a survey on the Brulosopher website, about home-brewers. One of the questions was about my facial hair.

So, just for that, I like this guy: :beard:

 

[ericbw]

I at least give you guys credit for taking the whole "you don't appreciate the consistency of BMC" discussion in a new and equally frustrating direction. :cross:

You can almost always count on the consistency of the BMC threads. This one ventured into unknown territory...

 

[Shooter]

This one ventured into unknown territory...

When do we invoke Godwin's Law?

 

[hoppyhoppyhippo]

I completely disagree. Just because you can't save much money making a particular beer at home doesn't mean it doesn't make sense to do so. I brew my own beer because I love doing it, nobody else will fill my corny kegs with their beer, the beer I make is delicious, and I take pride in crafting my own beers.

I guess I'm fortunate that I don't need to brew my own solely because of financial constraints. In fact, I don't think I'll ever break even on beer costs vs equipment costs, since I'm always upgrading.

This being said, I can still brew a BMC clone for less than I can buy it for. With such a low grain and hop bill, I'm confused as to why you can't either.

1/4 keg of BMC is about 55 bucks. It's pretty tough to come lower than that when you're factoring in your equipment cost. Lagering devices and space it takes up while lagering, so on so forth.

1/6 keg of Allagash White is about 85 bucks. I can brew that for under 40 bucks with going with an extremely high quality yeast.

So you may be able to brew BMC clone for close to cost or a little cheaper, but it's not at a premium of savings. And if you enjoy brewing, why would you want to have the mechanical process that BMC uses to get consistent results? Wouldn't coming up with new ideas and tinkering be a much more satisfactory outcome to the process?

 

[slym2none]

*redacted*

My timing, like my humour, stinks.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

Wouldn't coming up with new ideas and tinkering be a much more satisfactory outcome to the process?

As a homebrewer at first, yes. At least until you learn what you like, don't like, can't do, won't do again, etc..

But over time, consistent reproduction comes center stage.

As a Pro Brewer, first thing is to make money.

Once the money is coming in, then you can "innovate" or experiment. AB/Inbev/SAB/Miller has done a fair bit of "experimenting" over the years (Bud Amber, Black Crown, Select, Chelada)

I still miss the Michelobe Pale Ale that was out a few years ago. IMO, that was a solid low ABV product that became a staple in my fridge until it disappeared.

 

[iijakii]

1/4 keg of BMC is about 55 bucks. It's pretty tough to come lower than that when you're factoring in your equipment cost. Lagering devices and space it takes up while lagering, so on so forth.

1/6 keg of Allagash White is about 85 bucks. I can brew that for under 40 bucks with going with an extremely high quality yeast.

So you may be able to brew BMC clone for close to cost or a little cheaper, but it's not at a premium of savings. And if you enjoy brewing, why would you want to have the mechanical process that BMC uses to get consistent results? Wouldn't coming up with new ideas and tinkering be a much more satisfactory outcome to the process?

Equipment doesnt get amortized into batch cost 'cuz then our wives would have us all by the balls. I can brew a good lager for like $20/5gal easy. Or a nice mild for $12.

Only a couple thousand more batches and the brewery will have paid for itself

 

[hoppyhoppyhippo]

Equipment doesnt get amortized into batch cost 'cuz then our wives would have us all by the balls. I can brew a good lager for like $20/5gal easy. Or a nice mild for $12.

Only a couple thousand more batches and the brewery will have paid for itself

I'm not saying it should be, I using that because the poster I quoted used it.

I like to compare to what I could do. For 40 bucks I brewed a partial mash Quad that would have cost 10 bucks a 4 pack and netted 2 cases, the math is easy there as far as the value.

Of course it's not the reason I brew, I'm brewing 1 gallon batches that are costing me money right now,.

 

[slym2none]

As a homebrewer at first, yes. At least until you learn what you like, don't like, can't do, won't do again, etc..

But over time, consistent reproduction comes center stage.

As a Pro Brewer, first thing is to make money.

Once the money is coming in, then you can "innovate" or experiment. AB/Inbev/SAB/Miller has done a fair bit of "experimenting" over the years (Bud Amber, Black Crown, Select, Chelada)

I still miss the Michelobe Pale Ale that was out a few years ago. IMO, that was a solid low ABV product that became a staple in my fridge until it disappeared.

Budweiser's American Ale was pretty decent, as well.

 

[iijakii]

Drank some Coors Lite this summer when it was 100F and I was out at a fair. Divine, honestly. Tell you what. Might brew me up some beerwater next summer for grillin brewskies.

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

I grew up on Bud.I loved every bit of it and still do(Long before craft beer)I also Love making homebrew and try to drink only my beer all year except for summer when I enjoy other things over brewing.Theres a reason Cream of three crops is the #1 beer made on the forum.People like light quaffable beer,although Im not sure how many here would admit it.If it were easy to clone BMC it would be the most popular beer on the forum...just sayin.That being said Ill be kegging my Fresh squeezed IPA in a day or so...Love that stuff!

 

[bob1852]

Might brew me up some beerwater next summer for grillin brewskies.

That's one thing I miss about not buying Bud Light anymore...

I've found though, that a homebrewed amber or English mild works great for simmering sausages...

 

[slym2none]

If it were easy to clone BMC it would be the most popular beer on the forum...just sayin.

I am going to disagree with you there.

 

[iijakii]

That's one thing I miss about not buying Bud Light anymore...

I've found though, that a homebrewed amber or English mild works great for simmering sausages...

Yeah any malty, low-hop beer works great. Used a good milk stout earlier this year, caramelized into a nice sweet glaze on some hot italian sausage. Gotdamn.

I still buy Rainier. Gotta have some light lager for when sitting out by the grill.

 

[MaxStout]

Yooper's got a "fizzy yellow beer" recipe I might try next spring, to have on hand for summer drinking.

 

[Billy-Klubb]

BMC is exactly opposite of a Stout. it's not "BMCseason365", now is it? my logic is winner winner chicken dinner for me and not for you because I am the winner full of super awesomeness covered in the gravy.


stoutseason365.

 

[MaxStout]

BMC is exactly opposite of a Stout. it's not "BMCseason365", now is it? my logic is winner winner chicken dinner for me and not for you because I am the winner full of super awesomeness covered in the gravy.


stoutseason365.

The first rule of stoutseason365: you do not talk about stoutseason365.

 

[Billy-Klubb]

The first rule of stoutseason365: you do not talk about stoutseason365.

I'm Tyler Durden. I'm carved out of wood.

 

[1977Brewer]

I'm Tyler Durden. I'm carved out of wood.

I am Jacks inflamed spleen.

 

[max384]

1/4 keg of BMC is about 55 bucks. It's pretty tough to come lower than that when you're factoring in your equipment cost. Lagering devices and space it takes up while lagering, so on so forth.

1/6 keg of Allagash White is about 85 bucks. I can brew that for under 40 bucks with going with an extremely high quality yeast.

So you may be able to brew BMC clone for close to cost or a little cheaper, but it's not at a premium of savings. And if you enjoy brewing, why would you want to have the mechanical process that BMC uses to get consistent results? Wouldn't coming up with new ideas and tinkering be a much more satisfactory outcome to the process?

I don't factor in my equipment cost. My equipment is bought and paid for, as it's a hobby, not a business. If I'm doing a BMC clone, is costing me about $20 or less for a five gallon batch. Scaling the price up to 1/4 keg, and I'm still only paying half the price... But I don't brew to save money anyhow. I brew because I love to.

I have a four tap kegerator at home. I keep two taps filled with house beers that I've made many times before and that I know are good. The other two taps I experiment with, and I bottle on occasion too. IMO, nothing but experimenting can get boring too. It's nice to have a few house beers on tap. And it's nice to focus on consistency in known good recipes sometimes.

 

[hockeybrewer]

Thats one reason I love living less than an hour away from the Yuengling brewery. At tanzos weekly special I can get a case of cans for $16. There's a reason its Americas oldest brewery!

 

[slym2none]

Yuengling is about the only AAL I will drink. For one, it isn't urine-yellow, like Budpisswasser. Second, it actually has taste... unlike Budpisswasser.

 

[max384]

Thats one reason I love living less than an hour away from the Yuengling brewery. At tanzos weekly special I can get a case of cans for $16. There's a reason its Americas oldest brewery!

Yuengling is about the only AAL I will drink. For one, it isn't urine-yellow, like Budpisswasser. Second, it actually has taste... unlike Budpisswasser.

Yuengling lager is a beer I ALWAYS have in the fridge. I live about a half hour from the brewery, and take tours of the brewery about once a year or so.

In addition to their lager, they also brew a DELICIOUS porter. In fact, it's one of my favorite examples of a porter from any brewery. Their black and tan is good, as are most of their seasonals. For a big BMC-type brewery, they put out some good beer.

 

[max384]

I actually just decided to crack a Yuengling lager open, after typing this out. lol

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

Equipment doesnt get amortized into batch cost 'cuz then our wives would have us all by the balls. I can brew a good lager for like $20/5gal easy. Or a nice mild for $12.

Only a couple thousand more batches and the brewery will have paid for itself

What exactly do you factor in to that cost? Grain and hops? Grain and hops and yeast? DME for the starter? Propane? Water costs? Chiller water costs? Sanitation & cleaning solutions consumed? O2 for oxygenation? Minerals for water treatment? Bottle caps? Etc?

I understand that you don't need to amortize equipment once capital is sunk. It's not a business in that sense. And I agree with folks that say that you don't need to account for putting a dollar value on your time.

But in a lot of cases, I think we subconsciously try to underestimate the amount of money that we spend on batches outside of the basic hops/grain number. I.e. for a 5 gallon lager batch, if you use dry yeast, you'll probably need 2 packs, so you're probably spending $8 right there. If you use liquid, you're spending $8 plus whatever you need in DME and yeast nutrient to make a starter. And for a lager, ideally making a big starter or stepping it up. That doesn't leave a great deal of room in the budget for your malt & hops!

A 30pk of Miller Lite at my local Bevmo is $17.99. That's about $28 for the equivalent of two cases / ~5 gal.

That's pretty cheap. I'd be hard pressed to brew some batches cheaper than that.

 

[AZCoolerBrewer]

I don't factor in my equipment cost. My equipment is bought and paid for, as it's a hobby, not a business. If I'm doing a BMC clone, is costing me about $20 or less for a five gallon batch.

By that reasoning the beer is free too. Freeeeeeee Beeeeeeeer:rockin: All joking aside, I do feel like I am beating the system going off the grid with my beer, but really am I? I have to buy the malt, the yeast, the hops and in my case even the water (Phoenix water tastes awful), so its almost the same as buying it all put together already minus the fun and pride in making it.

PBR is cheap and it doesn't cost me 6 hours of my time on a Sunday. I also don't have to wait around for a minimum of a fortnight to drink it after I initiate the PBR process. PBR doesn't taste as good to me as New Belgium Imperial IPA or Deschutes Inversion IPA. Sometimes I want to sit on my back porch, watch the sunset with my beautiful wife and have a beer -- craft brew. Sometimes I want to swill a few and watch the D-Backs game -- BMC. I'm not going to notice the full bodied, tropical notes of a New Belgium Imperial IPA while Goldschmidt is ramming the ball down Kershaw's throat. Each has its place and even the bad ones help us to appreciate the good ones.

 

[ericbw]

When do we invoke Godwin's Law?

Patience. It will come.

 

[ericbw]

Honestly, I brew for street cred. It's not always better or cheaper than what you can buy. But it's always cooler.

 

[Bosh]

It's a lot easier to save money in Korea. For 5.5 gallons of ****ty local beer that'd cost about $60 if I've done my math right. For 5.5 gallons of decent imported IPA that'd be around $300.

**** yeah I save money homebrewing. Especially considering all I use is a plastic fermenter or two, a big dumpling steamer pot I got for free, my soup pot, hydrometer/thermometer and a big bag.

Can save enough money homebrewing to pay that **** off in just one batch with ease if I compare it to imported IPA and not too long compared to local **** beer.

Now if you factor in my time spent... Well doesn't look so good anymore, but even there I'm probably coming out ahead of the imported stuff I need to buy to get something really tasty.

 

[iijakii]

What exactly do you factor in to that cost? Grain and hops? Grain and hops and yeast? DME for the starter? Propane? Water costs? Chiller water costs? Sanitation & cleaning solutions consumed? O2 for oxygenation? Minerals for water treatment? Bottle caps? Etc?

I understand that you don't need to amortize equipment once capital is sunk. It's not a business in that sense. And I agree with folks that say that you don't need to account for putting a dollar value on your time.

But in a lot of cases, I think we subconsciously try to underestimate the amount of money that we spend on batches outside of the basic hops/grain number. I.e. for a 5 gallon lager batch, if you use dry yeast, you'll probably need 2 packs, so you're probably spending $8 right there. If you use liquid, you're spending $8 plus whatever you need in DME and yeast nutrient to make a starter. And for a lager, ideally making a big starter or stepping it up. That doesn't leave a great deal of room in the budget for your malt & hops!

A 30pk of Miller Lite at my local Bevmo is $17.99. That's about $28 for the equivalent of two cases / ~5 gal.

That's pretty cheap. I'd be hard pressed to brew some batches cheaper than that.

Willful ignorance on my end -- grain/hops/yeast are all I account for. Brewing salts, sanitizer, water, electricity, etc all unaccounted for.

Buy your base by the sack and try to reuse yeast and your costs drop dramatically. And hops by the pound. Ive started getting yeast from local brewpubs. Of course then I wind up buying a pint or two while there, once again not factoring that in

 

[GHBWNY]

It seems to me that most craft beer drinkers just don't like the taste of BMC. That's all well and good, but the "hate" is directed more toward their marketing than the actual product.

"Beechwood Aged" "Triple Hopped" "Cold Brewed" (which doesn't really make much sense to begin with) are terms that, while true, give the consumer an over hyped idea of what actually goes into the making of BMC. "This Miller is triple hopped. I've not heard of anyone else adding hops three times, so that must mean they're doing something different than everyone else. This must be a great example of a hoppy beer!" That kind of thing really gets to me because I've had family tell me that BM's Centennial Blonde recipe is way too bitter (I've not tried to give them any IPAs). BMC seems to be relying more on marketing than the quality of the actual product.

I get it, it's marketing, and they're in the business of making money. But at the same time, that kind of misinformation makes it harder for beer geeks to share what beer can actually be. Beer doesn't have to be a transparent, watery tasting carbonated beverage with a slight bitterness that you down after mowing the lawn. A lifelong BMC drinker might look at a cloudy hefeweizen and decide that it won't taste good, because beer shouldn't be cloudy, or beer served above 35F is probably going to suck because it isn't ice cold.

At least that's been my experience...

Bottom line: consumers who buy a product based on hype, get what they pay for.

 

[mattdee1]

For me, the "clean taste" and "consistency" of BMC are technical achievements strictly academic in nature, in that they have absolutely zero impact up or down on what matters to me in the real world; namely, how much I actually enjoy drinking the product(s) in question.

Could I brew a good AAL at home? I don't know, and I'm probably never going to try, because based on my personal situation, it's hard to imagine a more pointless exercise.

Let's do the math: relative to styles I enjoy, to brew an AAL, it's more time and care to brew a beer with reduced chance of success at meeting a target standard that I think sucks in the first place, and which I could buy examples of for cheap anywhere in the city in any quantity I want, almost any day of the year? Yeah, I'll pass.

 

[Peruvian802]

"Crafting" this product consistently must be very difficult since it's so 'light' and 'clean' tasting.

But who cares. I'd rather have a slice of this any day.

 

[iijakii]

I always see it purported that crafting light merican lagers is so hard. How? Same as any other beer, temp control and good pitching practices. I've brewed plenty of fantastic pilsners, I'm sure with some amylase I could extend that to a lite lager as well.