Craft Beer Price Sticker Shock!

[mongoose33]

There is a flip side to this, there are the craft beer lovers out there that don't know home brewing exists or have some excuse as to why they won't try it and they will spend all that money on different beers then wear it like a badge of honor, and then tell you how awesome the beer was.

I know those types--beer snobs!

I completely agree that the prices are outrageous but we also know what the prices of ingredients are and what goes into a batch of beer. I can't tell you how many people will tell me that they would rather buy it than make it.

I have a beer aficionado friend, not a beer snob, but he likes trying different beers and recording them on ratebeer. I don't know how many different beers he's tried in his life, but it's probably 10 times what I have tried.

He has no interest whatsoever in brewing his own. He's not a do-it-yourself type, not with brewing, nor with about anything else. He's rather buy it.

My thoughts are the same as what was posted already, due to crazy high prices I only buy craft beer if I'm out for dinner (which isn't that often) otherwise I just drink what I brew.

I haven't paid for a six-pack in over 15 months. I do buy beer at the local watering hole, or when out to dinner, but I haven't bought anything to consume at home. Why should I when I'm brewing beer for well under $1 a pint--and I like my own better!

 

[GPP33]

I have to be honest, there's a sickining air of entitlement in this thread. Craft brewers are a business and deserve (like any other business) to price their product at market value and make a fair profit for their efforts and the risks they are taking. If they price higher than the market will sustain they'll loose business and either adjust or go under due to a lack of sales. Nothing I have heard in this thread is outrageous price wise. A business isn't about "breaking even" it's about coming out ahead. This is after all their day job, I assume you want to do better than just breaking even in your day job?

For reference... brewing 15 gallons of a home brew would probably cost me on average $90 in ingredients. It'd also take me about 8 hours including all prep and clean up. The cost of doing business isn't cheap so let's say my "shop rate" is $100 per hour (which is more than reasonable). My keg now costs $890. Sure, my ingredients are more expensive and I don't have the economy of scale on my side but I don't have hundreds of thousands of dollars of capital, rent, employees counting on me, planning for future capital investments and most likely interest to pay my investors. Running a brewery ain't cheap! If you don't like the costs brew your own but don't chastise those trying to make a living supplying an in demand product to those who don't have the time,ability or desire to brew their own.

 

[CU_tony]

I am from CLT and visit this brewery almost every week (new brew every Tuesday). I have been frequenting them for 3 years now and have only noticed a slight price increase after they moved to their new facility.
Their beers are still priced 5-6$ which I find very reasonable and comparable to bar prices around here.

The example of $40 for a 4-pack is a RIS aged 1.5 years in bourbon barrels. You would pay $5 for a half pint of this, so $10 for a 16oz can makes sense.
I bought it, it's delicious and chocolaty and marshmallowy, and tasty.
16oz is way too large a serving of this particular beer IMO, but maybe they were intending for you to share??

Anywhos that is the only beer of theirs that is radically priced and it did take a significant time to make it and it is significantly special, at least to me!

 

[MaryB]

While I can brew my "house" ale for under 30 cents a pint if I use 2 row and under 50 cents if I use Golden Promise(recipe works with both, Golden Promise comes out a tad sweeter and smoother) I do not have building overhead, employees to pay, insurance(both business and health plans for the employees), taxes on what I produce...

So if I pay $6-8 for a beer at the only local brew pub I do not mind because their overhead is way higher than mine brewing in my garage!

 

[max384]

And what is up with the price of the larger bomber bottles? They seem to average around $15 per bottle, with prices regularly $20++. That's insane, and outside of maybe some several-year aged sours, just simply isn't justifiable. I don't buy them. If people are buying, more power to the brewery to keep selling them, but I'm hoping everyone begins snubbing their noses at these ridiculously high prices, and the cost will come down.

Regardless, I'm not affected much, since I drink 90%+ my own beers, and sprinkle commercial ones in on occasion.

 

[jbunton]

One thing I will say as a homebrewer in the process of going pro is I do agree some of the prices are becoming quite high. However the costs associated with doing business in this industry are not low at all, at least here in Ontario, Canada. If you factor in the materials, equipment, upkeep, utilities, taxes, fees, licencing, insurance, and everything else even at a somewhat above average price there is not as much left as you'd think.

 

[Special Hops]

If I brewed beer commercially and could sell any of it for $10 a can, I wouldn't hesitate. It's pure capitalism in its finest form. It's that kind of aggressiveness that stimulates others to brew the same beer more cheaply. It will pay the brewery employees. It'll help buy new equipment.

It's the exact way our American system was meant to work. You don't have to buy expensive products, that's your choice, but you really shouldn't knock the system unless you want to do away with the free market (which would be wholly un-American).

Well yes and no. I get the gist of what you are saying. But the alcohol distribution system in most states is not very free market. It is tightly controlled by distributors and and/or the state liquor boards. Free market would mean you go go into any brewery and buy beer on the spot without limitations - for whatever price is agreed by the brewery and yourself. Lot's of state prohibit this or highly regulate it.

 

[max384]

Well yes and no. I get the gist of what you are saying. But the alcohol distribution system in most states is not very free market. It is tightly controlled by distributors and and/or the state liquor boards. Free market would mean you go go into any brewery and buy beer on the spot without limitations - for whatever price is agreed by the brewery and yourself. Lot's of state prohibit this or highly regulate it.

Although there are heavy restrictions on alcohol sale and distribution, the laws of supply and demand, the cornerstone of a free market, are still at work.

 

[bobeer]

I'd love to support my local breweries but they're much more expensive than a lot of stuff that comes from outside the state; which never has made sense to me... $20+ growlers, $12-20 six packs, $15-30 bombers. Crazy talk. Some of the local brew pubs are more inline with my expectations and come in at around $5.50-6.50 a pint which I have no issue paying. Once you include a tip it goes up about $1 a beer. It's always been expensive to drink out though...

I lived in Chico, Ca for a spring/summer about 11 years ago and to get a 6er of SNPA was cheaper than it was to buy a cheap lunch somewhere. I'm talking about $5-6 six packs! Pints of SN at the bar were usually around $3. Yes, Chico is a small college town so prices are a bit cheaper for booze so you have to remember that. It's great when it's cheaper to drink the local poison than it is to eat!

I get sucked into the commercial beer game all the time... it just subtracts from the funds I have to brew with so I try to limit my urges. It is weird to go to the store and not buy beer though, haha. I just have to remember I can brew better beer, and beer tailored to my personal tastes, for a bit cheaper than I can buy it for. There's much more satisfaction in pulling a pint of my own beer over pulling a can or bottle out of the fridge.

The part of the commercial beer game I don't get is waiting in line for hours to get some kind of "special" beer. Maybe it's because, since I've brewed for a while, I get what goes into a beer and I don't really ever see what makes a beer so special that I couldn't brew it myself or to not know what they did to get the beer to taste the way it does. Take the new NE IPA trend... It's just a cloudy beer with a TON of hops and a soft mouthfeel. I've made several beers that people have thought were straight out of NE. IDK, I'm not trying to pee on anyone's parade or down well made NE style beer but I just don't get the "lets take the whole day and go pay a ridiculous amount for a beer that I can only buy 1 sixer of." trend.
Cooling out a the house and brewing with some friends while playing music and smoking some meat beats any bar, pub, brewery, or limited edition beer, I'd go to. Here's to another great reason to homebrew!

 

[pepindavid]

I ever go pro (not that I have any actual plan, but hey, I'm a dreamer), I would love to do it as a "worker cooperative". The idea would be for all employees should have a decent pay, to make enough "profit" to invest, get better results, grow reasonably, etc., while maintaining prices as low as possible to sustain everything.

The price point would not be driven by "supply and demand" (whatever the market is willing to pay), but by other economic forces. Maybe the price point to sustain all this would be very close to these crazy prices we're seeing (thanks in part to all the regulation and taxes).

Of course, that's not "pure capitalism", and it's not "american" (that is debatable, but I don't care, I'm not an American). I'm an anarchist bastard. Accumulation of capital for the sake of accumulating capital has been a tremendous creation force since 1500; I believe it has now become an even worse destruction force, and it is time to envision another "production mode" (ok, I'm stepping down from my soap box).

 

[mongoose33]

This discussion might have a different tenor if it weren't dominated by home brewers--which naturally it must be. What if we had others who don't brew but who like craft brew? Would the conclusions about high prices be the same?

I ask because there's a phenomenon whereby often people attribute quality to items that cost a lot. We've been taught this through advertising since birth (think Rolex--it tells time, but that's not what you're buying when you purchase one. You're purchasing a status symbol, not a watch).

Is a beer that costs more a better beer? It may not be that for us, but what about the general public?

******************

I once built and sold custom-built golf clubs. Made a major marketing mistake in that I only charged $20 above the cost of the components for each club. I discovered I should have charged $300 a set more than I did, because buyers wanted a story to go along w/ the clubs. Yes, they were terrific clubs as I had them matched in a way commercial clubs are never matched. Swingweight-matched, moment of inertia-matched, frequency-matched.

But nobody wanted to pull a Mongoose club from their bag--they wanted to pull a Titleist, Ping, Taylor-made, whatever. What I needed to do was charge them more (think Rolex), and give them a story to go with it: "Well, your clubs are off-the-rack; mine are individually matched to a specific specification based on what works best for me, frequency-matched and MOI-matched. That's why they cost as much as they do!"

Lesson learned. I think there's something similar in beer, something akin to a Placebo Effect. This beer is expensive, ergo it must be good, ergo, I will enjoy it.

I've had expensive beers that taste like crap and I'll tell you so. But then, I'm more about the taste and less about the Placebo.

**************

Edited to add: I'd love to do an exbeeriment where respondents would rate the taste of a beer, and prior to tasting they'd be told the beer cost either $3 a pint or $8 a pint, and see if there was a difference in perceived taste. I'll bet there would be.

 

[b-boy]

I can honestly say that I never look at the price when I'm in a brew pub. I just order what I want, hand them a $20, and get some change. I was in a local place Sunday night. I can't tell you what I paid for a pint. I probably should start paying attention to that.

When I'm in a beer store, however, I do look at the prices. I paid $11.99 for a 6-pack of local beer the other day. I thought that was a little high. It seems like I'm dropping $30-$40 every time I walk into a beer store, and I usually leave with a couple of 6-packs.

 

[IslandLizard]

This discussion might have a different tenor if it weren't dominated by home brewers--which naturally it must be. What if we had others who don't brew but who like craft brew? Would the conclusions about high prices be the same?

I ask because there's a phenomenon whereby often people attribute quality to items that cost a lot. We've been taught this through advertising since birth (think Rolex--it tells time, but that's not what you're buying when you purchase one. You're purchasing a status symbol, not a watch).

Is a beer that costs more a better beer? It may not be that for us, but what about the general public?

******************

I once built and sold custom-built golf clubs. Made a major marketing mistake in that I only charged $20 above the cost of the components for each club. I discovered I should have charged $300 a set more than I did, because buyers wanted a story to go along w/ the clubs. Yes, they were terrific clubs as I had them matched in a way commercial clubs are never matched. Swingweight-matched, moment of inertia-matched, frequency-matched.

But nobody wanted to pull a Mongoose club from their bag--they wanted to pull a Titleist, Ping, Taylor-made, whatever. What I needed to do was charge them more (think Rolex), and give them a story to go with it: "Well, your clubs are off-the-rack; mine are individually matched to a specific specification based on what works best for me, frequency-matched and MOI-matched. That's why they cost as much as they do!"

Lesson learned. I think there's something similar in beer, something akin to a Placebo Effect. This beer is expensive, ergo it must be good, ergo, I will enjoy it.

I've had expensive beers that taste like crap and I'll tell you so. But then, I'm more about the taste and less about the Placebo.

**************

Edited to add: I'd love to do an exbeeriment where respondents would rate the taste of a beer, and prior to tasting they'd be told the beer cost either $3 a pint or $8 a pint, and see if there was a difference in perceived taste. I'll bet there would be.

I have to second this. Golf clubs included.

I've made similar mistakes, not upping the price enough for making it more exclusive. I guess we were raised the right way and (too) slowly caught on with how real life apparently works.

 

[catdaddy66]

I once said that I wouldn't pay prices for beer that I considered exorbinant. That was after reading about a 22oz bomber that was sold for $17.

A month ago the best local brewer in Columbia (Conquest Brewing) had a release party for their double imperial stout named 'The Finisher', which I have yet to get in tbe 4 years they have been open.

Got in line and got the counter in about 30 minutes. Asked for two standard bottles (there were barrel aged and bourbon flavored varieties also) and they said "That's $44 please..."

I paused for about 3 seconds and said (to myself lol) "eff it, you only live once!"

 

[mongoose33]

I once said that I wouldn't pay prices for beer that I considered exorbinant. That was after reading about a 22oz bomber that was sold for $17.

A month ago the best local brewer in Columbia (Conquest Brewing) had a release party for their double imperial stout named 'The Finisher', which I have yet to get in tbe 4 years they have been open.

Got in line and got the counter in about 30 minutes. Asked for two standard bottles (there were barrel aged and bourbon flavored varieties also) and they said "That's $44 please..."

I paused for about 3 seconds and said (to myself lol) "eff it, you only live once!"

I can't imagine how good something would have to taste to make it worth $22 a bottle. Was it worth it?

This all reminds me of what people pay to play a famous course like Pebble Beach. $500 or more for a single round of golf. What on earth makes it worth that, other than a few famous golfers doing some good shots there?

Now, would I pay $500 to play Augusta National? Probably. But not without a few moments of regret.

Disclosure: I'm an empty-nester so I can afford to play Pebble Beach. I just can't imagine having such a good time doing it that I wouldn't end up regretting it.

PS: To each his/her own. Just like in beer, you like what you like and if you like playing Pebble, more power to you.

 

[catdaddy66]

I can't imagine how good something would have to taste to make it worth $22 a bottle. Was it worth it?

This all reminds me of what people pay to play a famous course like Pebble Beach. $500 or more for a single round of golf. What on earth makes it worth that, other than a few famous golfers doing some good shots there?

Now, would I pay $500 to play Augusta National? Probably. But not without a few moments of regret.

Disclosure: I'm an empty-nester so I can afford to play Pebble Beach. I just can't imagine having such a good time doing it that I wouldn't end up regretting it.

PS: To each his/her own. Just like in beer, you like what you like and if you like playing Pebble, more power to you.

Haven't tried it yet lol! Waiting for my birthday in a couple of weeks...

 

[kristiismean]

Some of these prices are getting out of hand, but Chicago seems to be self regulating, to a point.

The biggest offender unfortunately makes it feel like it's a privilege to pay $17.99 for a 6 pack among it's $10.99 peers. It's nice to see a few stores Dropping 3 floyd's because of this. 3 Floyds is also trying to increase production, so hopefully that works out.

Other than 3 floyds, there are not really any other major beers that gouge. I am not talking about limited releases, etc, like half-acre double daisy, Bells hopslam (or which some stores gouge, it's a 17.99 msrp and the stores sell it for 23+) or others.

New Glarus in WI on the other hand is NOT the place to buy their packaged stuff. Yes, they have their limited stuff in stock, but they charge full MSRP for everything and it's cheaper to get it at the gas station down the street. I did not make it there in 2016 (but have 2015\2014\2013\2012 etc) and supposedly per an employee, they have to charge MSRP and cannot charge less than their MSRP since they set the MSRP. but stores can since they are not the producer. weird...

 

[cegan09]

I was about to say something similar. My most expensive beer I have made so far still comes in about a $1 a pint even adding in cost of the propane.

your math is broken. Sure, that's the ingredient cost. But add in the cost of your time to make it, from gathering ingredients through final packaging. And the cost of the space you brew in. and the equipment. Sure, on a hobby you don't care, but when you run a business you sure as hell do. When you buy beer you aren't just paying for the ingredients, you're paying for their time, rent, utilities, etc etc. It all adds up.

Beer prices hike because people will pay for it. I don't like paying a ton, but I will on occasion because of the event it presents. I was at Hill Farmstead with my girlfriend and they had bottles of Double Barrel Damon for on site consumption. Stout that had sat in bourbon barrels for 2 years and port barrels for 2 years. It was $35/bottle. We got one. Was it worth it? Hell yes. The beer was honestly fantastic, and it was a great day in the middle of a snow storm in Vt, and we got to sit and enjoy the area for a long while with a great beer. Would I pay $35/bottle all the time? Not a chance. But for the right situation, why not.

 

[beernutz]

Back when I used to buy lots of different beers to try new styles, I started using a 6 pack calculator to get a better idea of how much I was paying per oz. Bombers really shocked me.
A $12 bomber = the equivalent of a $39.27 a six pack.
I think some of those 5oz bottles were even more ridiculous.

I went to a beer tasting at my local liquor store and among what they were serving was some Evil Twin barrel aged stout. My friend on the way out picked up a bomber without a price tag and was greeted with, "that will be $22 plus tax" (10% here) for a total of $24.20. $1 per ounce. To his credit he didn't blink and handed over his credit card.

I OTOH would have carefully replaced the bomber back in the fridge.

 

[b-boy]

The biggest offender unfortunately makes it feel like it's a privilege to pay $17.99 for a 6 pack among it's $10.99 peers. It's nice to see a few stores Dropping 3 floyd's because of this. 3 Floyds is also trying to increase production, so hopefully that works out.

Other than 3 floyds, there are not really any other major beers that gouge. I am not talking about limited releases, etc, like half-acre double daisy, Bells hopslam (or which some stores gouge, it's a 17.99 msrp and the stores sell it for 23+) or others.

Are you sure its 3 Floyds doing the gouging? I thought their prices at the brewery were pretty decent. I got several cases of ZD cheaper than at the local stores.

 

[kristiismean]

Are you sure its 3 Floyds doing the gouging? I thought their prices at the brewery were pretty decent. I got several cases of ZD cheaper than at the local stores.

It probably isn't, as their prices at the brewery are pretty decent.

But since it's been going on for years, from one beer to another, it would seem something needs to be fixed, and that they support it (but as I said, they are upping production, so hopefully this solves all) currently you can get all the gumball head you desire. on a sat.... (delivery by me is on Tuesday's)

 

[Sailingeric]

your math is broken. Sure, that's the ingredient cost. But add in the cost of your time to make it, from gathering ingredients through final packaging. And the cost of the space you brew in. and the equipment. Sure, on a hobby you don't care, but when you run a business you sure as hell do. When you buy beer you aren't just paying for the ingredients, you're paying for their time, rent, utilities, etc etc. It all adds up.

You are right but then I would have to amortize my equipment cost over the expected life, depreciate my house, and said equipement into the time of brewing, opportunity cost of brewing beer versus earning money as a brain surgeon if I gave up beer brewing time to study to become a brain surgeon. I know they have business to run but do I want to spend $20 for a bottle of beer or ingredients plus a little of my time to make a keg of beer?

 

[mongoose33]

your math is broken. Sure, that's the ingredient cost. But add in the cost of your time to make it, from gathering ingredients through final packaging. And the cost of the space you brew in. and the equipment. Sure, on a hobby you don't care, but when you run a business you sure as hell do. When you buy beer you aren't just paying for the ingredients, you're paying for their time, rent, utilities, etc etc. It all adds up.

I would argue the math is not broken.

I once was buying a product at a hardware store and the clerk was trying to upsell me into a more expensive item that would save some time. He asked me "What's your time worth?" which is a sneaky question. If I'm not doing anything money-making with that time, it's not worth anything--and I wouldn't have been.

The idea that you have to account for your time only makes sense if you were going to use that time to make money. Since in most of our cases that's not the case, the beer really does cost 50 cents a pint or to whatever our actual direct costs add up.

Further, if we find the process of brewing relaxing, we might be saving time on a therapist's couch or parting with money for some prescription.

You can also, if you like, think about it as paying yourself with the savings so that you're earning money by earning savings.

[I reload ammo; I can reload .45 ACP ammo for 13 cents or less--bullet, powder, primer. It costs generally 40 cents a round for store-bought commercial ammo. If I reload 400+ per hour on my progressive, and I'm saving 27 cents a round....I'm "paying" myself $108 per hour in savings.]

So, you're right in that we don't have to recover costs for our labor, rent, utilities, etc. that a brewery might have. It's precisely because we don't that our beer costs $1.00 a pint or less.

 

[stevedasleeve]

Hence home brew. Even now with hop prices >$25/lb I can brew 5.5 gallons for $30. And frankly my beer is far better than most commercial beers.

 

[GPP33]

Some of these prices are getting out of hand, but Chicago seems to be self regulating, to a point.

The biggest offender unfortunately makes it feel like it's a privilege to pay $17.99 for a 6 pack among it's $10.99 peers. It's nice to see a few stores Dropping 3 floyd's because of this. 3 Floyds is also trying to increase production, so hopefully that works out.

Other than 3 floyds, there are not really any other major beers that gouge. I am not talking about limited releases, etc, like half-acre double daisy, Bells hopslam (or which some stores gouge, it's a 17.99 msrp and the stores sell it for 23+) or others.

New Glarus in WI on the other hand is NOT the place to buy their packaged stuff. Yes, they have their limited stuff in stock, but they charge full MSRP for everything and it's cheaper to get it at the gas station down the street. I did not make it there in 2016 (but have 2015\2014\2013\2012 etc) and supposedly per an employee, they have to charge MSRP and cannot charge less than their MSRP since they set the MSRP. but stores can since they are not the producer. weird...

If you run a business that makes a product chances are you need distributors to help you get it to the end customer. Undercutting those distributors wouldn't be a wise move. It's not a "law" per say but it's pretty good practice to sell at MSRP and let your distributors undercut you. It's also a good practice to set minimum advertised pricing so you can ensure your product nets your distributors a fair margin or they won't want to distribute your goods anymore.

If you call my company and try to order something we'll sell it to you at MSRP but we'll also tell you the names of a few distributors who'll sell it to you for a lot cheaper. It's all part of doing business.

 

[cegan09]

I would argue the math is not broken.

I once was buying a product at a hardware store and the clerk was trying to upsell me into a more expensive item that would save some time. He asked me "What's your time worth?" which is a sneaky question. If I'm not doing anything money-making with that time, it's not worth anything--and I wouldn't have been.

The idea that you have to account for your time only makes sense if you were going to use that time to make money. Since in most of our cases that's not the case, the beer really does cost 50 cents a pint or to whatever our actual direct costs add up.

Further, if we find the process of brewing relaxing, we might be saving time on a therapist's couch or parting with money for some prescription.

You can also, if you like, think about it as paying yourself with the savings so that you're earning money by earning savings.

[I reload ammo; I can reload .45 ACP ammo for 13 cents or less--bullet, powder, primer. It costs generally 40 cents a round for store-bought commercial ammo. If I reload 400+ per hour on my progressive, and I'm saving 27 cents a round....I'm "paying" myself $108 per hour in savings.]

So, you're right in that we don't have to recover costs for our labor, rent, utilities, etc. that a brewery might have. It's precisely because we don't that our beer costs $1.00 a pint or less.

You missed my point. I was saying that it's not fair to compare what you perceive as your cost to make beer to the cost for commercial beer. Because you are not accounting for your time, equipment, space, etc since it is a hobby for you. However commercial breweries do in fact have to account for all of these things. So it's not fair to say that commercial prices aren't fair because they aren't the same as your home brew cost.

 

[mongoose33]

You missed my point. I was saying that it's not fair to compare what you perceive as your cost to make beer to the cost for commercial beer. Because you are not accounting for your time, equipment, space, etc since it is a hobby for you. However commercial breweries do in fact have to account for all of these things. So it's not fair to say that commercial prices aren't fair because they aren't the same as your home brew cost.

Sure it's fair. I don't have to buy their stuff, and I can make my own far cheaper.

We're comparing value here in addition to cost. My beer, IMO, is every bit as good. My cost is far, far less than if I drink theirs.

Their cost is irrelevant. What is relevant is their price versus my cost. Would your argument still hold if they were charging $100 a pint?

 

[JordanKnudson]

Are you sure its 3 Floyds doing the gouging? I thought their prices at the brewery were pretty decent. I got several cases of ZD cheaper than at the local stores.

Prices at their taproom tend to be okay (although I am one of the whiners who hates that they don't offer any short pours or sampler flights), but it is true that they are consistently one of the most expensive breweries on the shelves in stores around the city. I love 3F, but when a 6-pack of Yum Yum costs $13, and a sixer of Revolution costs $10, and some of Off-Color's offerings are going for $8-9, and Lagunitas is $9, and 5 Rabbit is $10, and even Surly is $12 for 4 16-ouncers, I have a hard time going for the 3 Floyds very consistently.

 

[cegan09]

Sure it's fair. I don't have to buy their stuff, and I can make my own far cheaper.

We're comparing value here in addition to cost. My beer, IMO, is every bit as good. My cost is far, far less than if I drink theirs.

Their cost is irrelevant. What is relevant is their price versus my cost. Would your argument still hold if they were charging $100 a pint?

I love when people think this way on a very specific subject. your cost has nothing to do with their price. Sure, you can go make your own beer and be happy and never buy commercial beer again. Go for it. Doesn't change the fact that commercial breweries have additional cost that naturally makes prices higher. The fact that some push the prices higher than others is just capitalism and the fact that apparently others think it's ok.

You can have the same discussion about almost anything. I do my own car work. The cost to do this is significantly lower than going to a shop (if I ignore the value of my own time since I generally work slower than a shop). But a shop has to assign value to the time spent by the mechanic and pay him as such. they also have to pay for the building, insurance, and a whole slew of other things that I don't. There is also the risk that I screw up a repair and make something else worse. Is that risk larger than the additional cost of going to a shop I can then point blame on later? That's a decision that's different for everyone.

Similarly I could go make my own bolts and nuts. I have access to all the machines. Stock is cheap. But it won't be cheaper than just buying from the store.

Examples fall all over the spectrum. In this case, sure it's cheaper to make beer at home. eventually. once you forget just what you've spent both in dollars and time to buy the equipment and set it up. But that has zero impact on what retail cost should be because it doesn't involve all the same factors.

 

[xCSx]

This is still way cheaper than good wine or whiskey.

 

[mongoose33]

I love when people think this way on a very specific subject. your cost has nothing to do with their price.

Well, it appears you're missing my point, which places the blame on probably me for not making it as clear as it could be.

My cost has nothing to do with their price, you're correct on that. But the difference between their price and my cost is the issue here. That's the key item in the decisionmaking.

I'm not a professional brewer so I am not bound to count my labor as somehow factoring into my cost. They do. I get it, that's patently obvious.

The key here is each of us make a decision trying to decide if the difference between our cost and their price, while factoring in the quality of what we brew, is great enough to justify the time and effort spent brewing. That decision may be different for everyone, and that's fine.

Sure, you can go make your own beer and be happy and never buy commercial beer again. Go for it. Doesn't change the fact that commercial breweries have additional cost that naturally makes prices higher. The fact that some push the prices higher than others is just capitalism and the fact that apparently others think it's ok.

You're arguing something nobody is disputing. Yes, commercial breweries have issues i don't have to deal with. The issue is the difference between what I pay to brew (less than $1/pint) and what I have to pay to buy their stuff--which may or may not be as good.

I showed earlier that valuing your time only matters if you're brewing instead of doing something else that would make money. If, in not brewing, you aren't spending that time earning money in some other capacity, then the value of that time is zero. Ergo, my "business model" is cheaper than theirs. Has to be. And that's why I don't buy beer commercially except when I'm out.

 

[Weezy]

The free market assumes informed consumers.

Actually it's the opposite. Capitalists (and politicians) prey on the uninformed.

Remember what P.T.Barnum said....
"No man ever lost money underestimating the stupidity of the American public."

 

[bbohanon]

Catching back up on this thread and alot of great perspectives and thoughts for sure..
For me, the whole price issue is not about homebrewing vs commercial brewing with pricing at all..If I was not a homebrewer at all, I KNOW 100% I still would not have even thought about spending $10 per 16oz can for ANY beer, nor more than $12-15 a bomber or $5 a pint..to me I relate it to when I stopped smoking..I did not quit because of health reasons and I was certainly not rolling my own smokes/growing my own tobacco, I quit because it just became to expensive for me personally to continue with.

I certainly understand the whole "charge what the market will bear" mentality, but as Dirty Harry said "Mans GOT to know his limitations..."

With this brewery, I have reached mine personally. Nothing against them at all as a previous CLT poster mentioned they are a great local brewery.

I also patronized this place very regularly even when they were at their old location when you could walk in on a Sat afternoon and there was hardly a crowd at all (its been a few years now since that was the case).
They are great folks and they do make great beer, but their current pricing model has priced me out of continuing to be a customer of theirs.

I see this becoming more of a trend with some of the other local breweries as well as it seems when one starts to up prices, the rest will follow. To me, I am not angry at all about it, more saddened that I want to continue to be a patron, but my spending brain just cannot justify that price point.

Their place is almost always packed with patrons so they still have plenty of customers who ARE willing to spend that kind of dough so I am sure I will not be missed.

Someone else mentioned seeing beers from out of state breweries being cheaper than local which I am also seeing in the grocery stores which to my brain is backwards, but it is what it is I reckon.

 

[Morrey]

I think it's a good thing.

SWMBO: Why did you spend $1200 the last 2 months on beer stuff, and take over half the basement?
Tom: I'm making craft beer. It sells for $10 per 16 oz can. Each of these batches is therefore worth $400. So after about 4 batches including ingredients, this equipment is paid for! Honey, do you really want me to spend $10 per can for a beer I can make myself?

Yes, but Tommy, don't you realize how many pairs of shoes I could buy with $1,200?

 

[Murphys_Law]

Actually it's the opposite. Capitalists (and politicians) prey on the uninformed.

Remember what P.T.Barnum said....
"No man ever lost money underestimating the stupidity of the American public."

No, a capitalist exchanges their product for another persons money based on (perceived) value. There is no coercion or preying taking place.

You may not see value and wont pay but your experience doesn't make it wrong for somebody who does see value to pay. If enough people stop seeing value in the product then the brew pub will lower the price or go out of business.

A typical home brewer can make a beer for far less than they can buy a beer so our "value" is a lot different than most. Doesn't make the brew pub bad - it just makes them smart businessmen who market to a crowd that isn't bitching about them making a living.

I don't care if they sell $30 pints, get huge and sell to InBev for $1B.

 

[DoomRider]

Also from Charlotte. The brewery that the OP is talking about just moved into a beautiful new facility and I believe that is why they are charging a tad more. Their flagships are still the same price. That $10 can is definitely an one off for them. They brew great beer (top 3 in Charlotte).

I don't really see other Charlotte breweries "following suit" though. Prices seem about normal in Charlotte as I have seen elsewhere (Ashville NC, Raleigh NC, Charleston SC, Columbus OH).

I think as home brewers we see the price differently than a person off the street. We know how much the grain, hops, yeast cost and think it is crazy they are charging $5-7 for a pint. Cause we know that if we drink 3-4 pints that we could have paid about the same amount to make a whole batch.

Just my $0.02.

 

[Morrey]

Looking at craft beer vs home brewing may be likened to my neighbor baking cakes in her home to sell. She makes cakes that rival the very best bakeries in town. She charges half the going rate and can do so since she doesn't consider her mortgage, taxes, utilities, insurance on her home as part of her operational costs. She lives there, enjoys baking cakes as a hobby she loves, and only wants to cover the cost of her ingredients with a sale of a cake.

We all love home brewing as a hobby or probably wouldn't be on this forum. I don't count my time as labor, nor do I factor in my water bill, electricity or any other household bills when I determine that it cost me $XX to brew a keg. In that regards, we are comparing apples to oranges. Maybe it does cost a top end brewery more than we think to produce excellent products once you factor in all costs, labor, transportation, distribution, etc.

It remains our choice to buy top dollar craft beers, but if we stopped buying them, would the price drop? Or would the product simply go away? If it went away, we could think the margin was tighter than we may have thought and they can't cut the price. If the price dropped, they simply readjusted their profit structure to meet supply/demand equilibrium.

But, in the micro scheme to me personally, I'll be dammed if I plan on paying $13.99 for a 4-pack of 12 oz bottles for a beer I can make at home which is every bit as good...or better, than they brew. I am blessed I can do this, but for many of the rest of the craft beer affectionados, they may not have this skill available. If they like a beer, they are held hostage by pricing schemes. I just figure out a way to clone the beer.

 

[drksky]

I'll play devil's advocate

Keep in mind, a brewery is a business. They want to make a profit and return their investment within the first few years of operation. Businesses cost a lot to run and that's reflected in the cost of the products. (Like cooking a filet at home will save around $20 a plate) I'm not stoked to pay $8+ for a 6 pack but I like having the selection to choose from. Margins are small for these guys so they have to make money somewhere.

And they're trying to reach that ROI as fast as they can because deep down they know the market is going to crash sooner than later.

 

[bbohanon]

Also from Charlotte. The brewery that the OP is talking about just moved into a beautiful new facility and I believe that is why they are charging a tad more. Their flagships are still the same price. That $10 can is definitely an one off for them. They brew great beer (top 3 in Charlotte).

I don't really see other Charlotte breweries "following suit" though. Prices seem about normal in Charlotte as I have seen elsewhere (Ashville NC, Raleigh NC, Charleston SC, Columbus OH).

I think as home brewers we see the price differently than a person off the street. We know how much the grain, hops, yeast cost and think it is crazy they are charging $5-7 for a pint. Cause we know that if we drink 3-4 pints that we could have paid about the same amount to make a whole batch.

Just my $0.02.

Ah Asheville...how I wish there was an Asheville Brewing Co type of brewery/pub here in CLT..$6 bombers (which for ninjabreadman porter is a friggin steal when its in season), great pizza and kick-ass environment (with $3 movie nights!).

These guys do it the way I would if I were going pro..

I would be a full-time resident at this place if there was a location here locally...:rockin:

 

[blackbeer]

anything north of 5 bucks a pint and i'll pass. thats one of the reasons i rarely go out to any of those places. or bars in general. or restaurants. i'm cheap. there i said it.