Saison Cottage House Saison

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My first attempt at this got a nasty infection. Smelled like toilet water after a week in August. :smack: Tasted terrible, like rotten orange juice.

Going to try again.

Harvest yeast from Dupont or Belle Saison dry yeast?
 
castillo556 said:
My first attempt at this got a nasty infection. Smelled like toilet water after a week in August. :smack: Tasted terrible, like rotten orange juice.

Going to try again.

Harvest yeast from Dupont or Belle Saison dry yeast?
Click to expand...

My big question is how your other batch went south?

Has your equipment been replaced/boiled? Id hate to see another batch down the tubes because of sanitation problems
 
azscoob said:
My big question is how your other batch went south?

Has your equipment been replaced/boiled? Id hate to see another batch down the tubes because of sanitation problems
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I missed my OG big time due to missing my mash temps (way too low) so the OG was 1.030.

I foolishly thought I would just dump in a bag of that AHBS ABV booster without boiling it and just spraying the bag with StarSan. I believe this was the culprit.

It also could have been the harvest DuPont yeast, but I was careful with the starter/harvest.
 
castillo556 said:
I missed my OG big time due to missing my mash temps (way too low) so the OG was 1.030.



I foolishly thought I would just dump in a bag of that AHBS ABV booster without boiling it and just spraying the bag with StarSan. I believe this was the culprit.



It also could have been the harvest DuPont yeast, but I was careful with the starter/harvest.
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Maybe you should eliminate some variables and start with some commercial yeast.
 
3 weeks since brewday, kegged 5 days ago. This is awesome

These 20 gallons will go quick

saison.jpg


20150411_152146.jpg
 
I'm 15 days since brew day and this thing is still bubbling into my blowoff vessel. Anyone else seen it go this long? I know the initial post says 4 weeks of fermentation but was hoping it would finish up sooner.
 
inkman15 said:
I'm 15 days since brew day and this thing is still bubbling into my blowoff vessel. Anyone else seen it go this long? I know the initial post says 4 weeks of fermentation but was hoping it would finish up sooner.
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I helped my fermentation by bumping up the temperature. I started at 68F slowly raised it and was holding 80F the last days of it. It finished within 2 weeks down to 1.002
 
inkman15 said:
I'm 15 days since brew day and this thing is still bubbling into my blowoff vessel. Anyone else seen it go this long? I know the initial post says 4 weeks of fermentation but was hoping it would finish up sooner.
Click to expand...

Have you checked gravity? You may be just out gassing absorbed co2 from fermentation.

Get a gravity number, check again in a few days and if it's the same, it's good to go!
 
azscoob said:
Have you checked gravity? You may be just out gassing absorbed co2 from fermentation.

Get a gravity number, check again in a few days and if it's the same, it's good to go!
Click to expand...

I'm so paranoid about infections that I generally don't take a gravity reading until there's no airlock activity for a few days but I may have to break my rule on this one...
 
inkman15 said:
I'm 15 days since brew day and this thing is still bubbling into my blowoff vessel. Anyone else seen it go this long? I know the initial post says 4 weeks of fermentation but was hoping it would finish up sooner.
Click to expand...

mines been going nearly 4 weeks now, i sampled it with gravity readings at 3 weeks, tasted good but only at 1.012.

Let it ride, slim chance of infection at this point, IMO.
 
The 3711 yeast is a beast, and has never failed to chew down a recipe to 1.00x in rapid time, but when I've used other saison yeasts sometimes I get stall out, slow as hell fermentation, finishing up higher than expected.... It's why I went with the 3711 in the first place. @MrFeltimo @inkman15 what yeast are you using that it's moving slow?
 
stever1000 said:
After 10 days my gravity is at 1.006. I'm going to shake it and let it sit and see how close I can get to 1.000

I can't for the life of me remember what my OG was and I forgot to write it down. But it's not the end of the world!
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I'm sure you know but you don't want to literally shake the carboy. Introducing any unnecessary oxygen makes for a worse beer. You could lightly swirl though without any harm. Typically you don't need to do these kinds of things.
 
azscoob said:
The 3711 yeast is a beast, and has never failed to chew down a recipe to 1.00x in rapid time, but when I've used other saison yeasts sometimes I get stall out, slow as hell fermentation, finishing up higher than expected.... It's why I went with the 3711 in the first place. @MrFeltimo @inkman15 what yeast are you using that it's moving slow?
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3711 at upper 60's if not more, the dining room where its sitting gets really warm.
 
I kegged half of my batch last night. The final gravity I got was 1.004, but I was using theyeastbay's saison blend with that 5 gallons. The other 5 gallons has theyeastbay's sour farmhouse ale and when I took a gravity reading on April 6th, it was at 1.030...and it's still chugging along. My fermentation chamber is currently set to 78 degrees; I'm considering raising the temp to help the sour farmhouse finish out. I'm happy to report that replacing the black peppercorns with sichuan peppercorns seems to have worked out nicely. The sample I took when kegging last night tasted great...cannot wait to get this carbed up! Cheers!
 
azscoob said:
The 3711 yeast is a beast, and has never failed to chew down a recipe to 1.00x in rapid time, but when I've used other saison yeasts sometimes I get stall out, slow as hell fermentation, finishing up higher than expected.... It's why I went with the 3711 in the first place. @MrFeltimo @inkman15 what yeast are you using that it's moving slow?
Click to expand...

I know some people have trouble finding Wyeast, if so I've used WLP 566 and always finishes within a point or two of 1.000 just like 3711. Biggest differences is 566 is more peppery, has more season funk, and doesn't have the smooth mouthfeel of 3711. If you go with 566 I wouldn't use and pepper the yeast will give off plenty, even in mid to upper 60's temps.
 
azscoob said:
The 3711 yeast is a beast, and has never failed to chew down a recipe to 1.00x in rapid time, but when I've used other saison yeasts sometimes I get stall out, slow as hell fermentation, finishing up higher than expected.... It's why I went with the 3711 in the first place. @MrFeltimo @inkman15 what yeast are you using that it's moving slow?
Click to expand...

I know some people have trouble finding Wyeast, if so I've used WLP 566 and always finishes within a point or two of 1.000 just like 3711. Biggest differences is 566 is more peppery, has more saison funk, and doesn't have the smooth mouthfeel of 3711. If you go with 566 I wouldn't use any pepper the yeast will give off plenty, even in mid to upper 60's temps.
 
I just made this recipe on Sunday and couldn't find the 3711, so I used the WLP 565 instead. I'm used to using Danstar Belle Saison dry yeast with great results and have never tried the WLP 565. The 2 Liter starter I made really took off and the krausen dropped in about 16 hours. I pitched the entire starter into my fermenter with the wort at 78 degrees and I had airlock activity within 3 hours. It continues to chug away 4 days later although the temperature has now dropped to 68 degrees after holding steady at 78 for the first two days. I am using my one conical fermenter without temperature control since it is a Saison and I thought I would just let it free roam. I just hope it doesn't stall out. I did add ground pepper at the end of the boil, so I'm now hoping it's not too peppery. My LHBS told me the 565 is the spicey peppery WLP while the 566 is the fruitier version. Can't wait to try it ... actually I can, I already have 4 full kegs ahead of it in the pipeline.
 
Zippox said:
I'm sure you know but you don't want to literally shake the carboy. Introducing any unnecessary oxygen makes for a worse beer. You could lightly swirl though without any harm. Typically you don't need to do these kinds of things.
Click to expand...

Mine is just in a bucket and I'm not strong enough to actually shake it, I swirled it around until I thought all the yeast was back in suspension :mug:

I just moved the beer to the warmest room in my apartment in hopes it ferments down to 1.000 :rockin:
 
I can't wait to revisit this one myself, it will be a new brew in essence, a new state, new water, different temp swings, it's gonna be awesome!!!!!!!
 
pvpeacock said:
My LHBS told me the 565 is the spicey peppery WLP while the 566 is the fruitier version. Can't wait to try it ... actually I can, I already have 4 full kegs ahead of it in the pipeline.
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I never used 565 so it maybe more peppery than 566, for me that would be way too much pepper because I get a good amount from 566. 566 also gives some good citrus as well, I'm guessing that's what they're saying as being fruity.

I made a motueka and el Dorado hopped Saison last year and it was great if you like lemon/lime zest. Now I'm kind of thinking of making it again and split it using 565, 566, and 3711. Saisons are my favorite style so I'd like to get a good sense for what each strain contributes. Maybe one strain for "light" traditional brews and another for dark Saisons.

I wonder if 565 stalls with lower temps, I don't have good temp control and ferment at my in laws so checking daily is tough.
 
azscoob said:
The 3711 yeast is a beast, and has never failed to chew down a recipe to 1.00x in rapid time, but when I've used other saison yeasts sometimes I get stall out, slow as hell fermentation, finishing up higher than expected.... It's why I went with the 3711 in the first place. @MrFeltimo @inkman15 what yeast are you using that it's moving slow?
Click to expand...

I've also been using 3711. I'm pretty sure that it has been slowed because of temps in my basement in the low 60's. I'm going to move it upstairs in a day or so if it's still chugging away. Currently fermenting 2 batches of this for my wedding in June. The one that's been sitting for almost 3 weeks is still getting an occasional bubble in the airlock. The other one was brewed about a week ago and is attached to a blowoff that's bubbling rapidly still.
 
Brewed this today, everything went smoothly. My only concern is once everything was in the fermenter and buttoned up I noticed most of the pepper left in the trub cone in the kettle. Hopefully some made it into the fermenter. Sample tasted good, great color, 1.060 OG.
 
Scriv said:
Brewed this today, everything went smoothly. My only concern is once everything was in the fermenter and buttoned up I noticed most of the pepper left in the trub cone in the kettle. Hopefully some made it into the fermenter. Sample tasted good, great color, 1.060 OG.
Click to expand...

I haven't brewed this, but if you boiled the pepper, I'm sure you extracted all the necessary oils to get the flavor in your beer without the peppercorns getting into your fermenter.
 
burninator said:
I haven't brewed this, but if you boiled the pepper, I'm sure you extracted all the necessary oils to get the flavor in your beer without the peppercorns getting into your fermenter.
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Hopefully. Less than 6 hours in, already activity in the airlock.
 
I'm planning to brew my session strength version of this again but I'm not sure I can propagate enough French Saison so I'm toying with the idea of a mixed culture of this and Caracole yeast which is similar to Wyeast Ardennes.

I managed to get a blond down to 1.004 with the Caracole yeast and it's nice and fruity so I reckon it'll work well but with a little French Saison to chew through the last few points.

I'll post if I end up doing it this way to let you all know how it goes.
 
inkman15 said:
I've also been using 3711. I'm pretty sure that it has been slowed because of temps in my basement in the low 60's. I'm going to move it upstairs in a day or so if it's still chugging away. Currently fermenting 2 batches of this for my wedding in June. The one that's been sitting for almost 3 weeks is still getting an occasional bubble in the airlock. The other one was brewed about a week ago and is attached to a blowoff that's bubbling rapidly still.
Click to expand...


Update: moved my batch upstairs for a few days and took a sample last night. I'm at 1.007 and think it's about done. It tasted FANTASTIC. Never thought I could brew a saison that was this close to commercial examples. Nice and fruity with a dry, crisp, finish reminiscent of white wine. Thrilled to carb this up and enjoy at my wedding!
View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1429542252.259366.jpg
 
Looks like you took a large hydrometer sample to taste test because you know that you won't have a chance to drink any any the wedding, right?
 
Tried second attempt today. Did a half batch and added 1 oz of grapefruit peels at flameout. Let's see how it goes...
 
To those of you who have bottled this, how much priming sugar did you use (assuming 5 gallons)?

I'm looking at a calculator that puts me at 5.1oz. Seems high to me tough I know the style demands high carbonation. Just want to make sure I don't overshoot it.

Hoping to bottle tonight.

Also - I was at 1.007 three days ago. I'm assuming this is done but I've seen minor bubbling in the airlock still. The issue is that I need to get this bottled ASAP in order to be ready for my wedding. Is there a big risk in bottling today if the gravity is about the same?
 
I brewed this recipe 10 days ago using White Labs WLP565 because my LHBS didn't have Wyeast 3711. After I pitched the 565, I got nervous because of reviews I read complaining that the 565 could stall out and then restart weeks later. I started my fermentation at 75 degrees which held for the first 4 days and then the temperature slowly dropped until it was at 68 degrees yesterday. Because it 's in the one conical fermenter I own which does not have temperature control, I just had to let the temperature go wherever it wanted. I took a sample yesterday and was pleasantly surprised to see the Specific Gravity at 1.005. No stalling for me! I will leave it in the fermenter until this weekend and then keg it (unless the SG continues to fall). It tasted great, but not as strong or peppery as I expected.
 
Just wanted to say thanks for this recipe. I brewed it pretty much exactly as is, and after bottle conditioning for 7 weeks, it is by far the best beer I've brewed yet.
 
ryno84 said:
Just wanted to say thanks for this recipe. I brewed it pretty much exactly as is, and after bottle conditioning for 7 weeks, it is by far the best beer I've brewed yet.
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Glad to hear you love it!

I have a running theme whit most of my recipes I post here and elsewhere, I adhere to the KISS method, Keep It Simple Stupid! The more going on in a beer the more things seem to get muddled and vague.
 
I just can't leave good enough alone, so I modified the recipe for some additional "zest."

For a 11-gal batch, I added
1. zest of three tangerines at flameout
2. 1.5 lbs clover honey (.75 lbs to each carboy) 3-days into fermentation
2. 1.5 oz dry hops per 5-gal using Lemondrop hops (4.4% aa) at 8 or 9 days into fermentation
3. Added tea made from zest of one tangerine to one of the 5.5 gal carboys prior to bottling at about 20 days. Kegged remainder on same day.

Fermentation Notes: I pitched a 2-L starter into 11 gal and fermented at 63F, ramping to about 70F at the end. Fermentation went from about 1.060 to 1.012 in 8 days. Didn't measure gravity prior to kegging but it should be in the low 1.005 range.

I kegged 5 gal and have the remaining 5 gal (finished volume) in champagne bottles, primed for 3 volumes. Tastes great on tap and could even use more citrus zest and dry hopping next time. A slight honey flavor comes through with the light dry hop aroma. Yeast flavor is subdued, but definitely Belgian with some light ester notes. I bet the bottles will be even better after a short aging period of 2-4 months.

thanks AZSCOOB!

EDIT: I used the yeast cake to make an orange mead with a 1.077 OG. The gravity dropped to 1.002 by the FOURTH DAY of fermentation at about 64f. That's about 10% abv and still bubbling. I think this saison is a great way to generate some healthy yeast for a larger beer or mead.
 
I'll be brewing this up today. Instead of the black pepper, I have a lb of black pepper candi sugar I plan on using. It's got a blend of 3 different kinds of black pepper...took a tiny taste test at the LHBS and it tasted killer.

They had about 15 different kinds of this flavored candi sugar....tried a ginger blonde ale made with it and it was quite tasty.
 

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