lawnboy881
Active Member
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2012
- Messages
- 32
- Reaction score
- 0
*old hops!
Now my question for those with the kit, what for do the currents come in? Fresh? Dried?
Going to be brewing this soon. I wanted to ask if what I'm thinking about doing would be ok to do. I understand that with this brew you need to stop fermentation when it reaches 1.020 gravity and transfer into secondary afterwards. I brew all my beer at my friends house 5 hours away and usually visit once a month. Would it be ok to put the primary into a temp controlled chest freezer when it reaches that gravity and leave it for a few weeks till I make it back there to transfer it?
The idea is that you want to leave a controlled amount of sugars around for the bug/brett blend to go to town and sour/funk before there's nothing left and it has to slowing eat thru the longer chain sugars.
Will you still make a good beer with letting the primary finish? Most likely. Will it be as sour as if you saved some sugar for the bugs and brett to get started on? Nope.
I'm going to have to disagree somewhat, firstly assuming his OG is 1.078-80 the saccharomyces will probably finish in the 1.014-17 (roughly 80% AA) range which is the recommended range per Vinny. Even if it finishes at 1.012, you'll have plenty of long chain sugars for the bugs to work on, not to mention Brett breaks down yeast esters from primary fermentation as well. Plus, youre adding some sugar to the beer when you add the currants to.
I wouldn't stress about it too much, let the primary finish then add your bugs. Or you could do what I did and add everything all at once, but I used Bugfarm 5 for my version so its not exactly a clone.
Worst case scenario, if the beer finished at say 1.008 after primary, just add some maltodextrin when adding the bugs. But even then I would just stay the course and let it ride.
Let me preface this by saying it's certainly not intended to be argumentative. I just wanted to clarify for my own info and to keep the thread filled with valuable, non-conflicting advice and comments.
I'm not quite sure what you're disagreeing with. My point was that by leaving more short chain sugars for the lactic acid producing bacteria (Lactobacillus and Pediococus) to consume you would end up with a more sour end product. The bugs and brett will certainly go to town on the longer chain sugars that the primary sacch strain leaves behind, but by cutting the primary short you're giving them that much more food to build up their colony and make the sour, sour lactic acid that we're all so fond of.
I also mentioned that allowing the primary to finish and then adding the bugs will still make good beer. I used the words "most likely" because there are too many variables to give absolutes with sour beer.
Will you still make a good beer with letting the primary finish? Most likely. Will it be as sour as if you saved some sugar for the bugs and brett to get started on? Nope.
Yea, sorry if I came across as argumentative, that wasnt my intention. My response wasn't great at pinpointing what I disagreed with, so it probably came across as rambling.
I'm nitpicking, but it was the use of the word "Nope" here that gave me reason to disagree. Like you mentioned above, there are too many variables at hand to give absolutes with mixed fermentation beers.
What I was trying to get at is even with 80% AA (the upper range of WLP530) on a 1.075+ OG beer there will be plenty left for the bugs to work on without trying to stop fermentation. IMO, and thats all it is since I am no expert, is that the poster shouldn't worry about stopping fermentation since the primary strain will only go so far in this wort and will almost certainly finish in the range that Vinny "suggests" (1.016).
My point was that by leaving more short chain sugars for the lactic acid producing bacteria (Lactobacillus and Pediococus) to consume you would end up with a more sour end product. The bugs and brett will certainly go to town on the longer chain sugars that the primary sacch strain leaves behind, but by cutting the primary short you're giving them that much more food to build up their colony and make the sour, sour lactic acid that we're all so fond of.
I also mentioned that allowing the primary to finish and then adding the bugs will still make good beer. I used the words "most likely" because there are too many variables to give absolutes with sour beer.
My primary with WLP530 got down to 1.014 from a starting gravity of 1.073. I meant to stop my primary and it just got away from me. My first pull was at 1.010 and was after a little under a year of sitting. I haven't checked where it ended up now, but I brewed it 6/2012 and have kind of been doing a mini solera thing with it. Pulling off a couple of bottles and then adding some wort back in.
Just how do you stop the yeast from finishing up it's fermentation? You either have to pasteurize or use a fine filter. Cold crashing, or just racking to secondary will carry over plenty of yeast to finish off the simple sugars before any Lacto, Pedio, or Brett has a chance to work on anything. Trying to stop the beer at 1.020 is a pointless exercise. The only practical way to do it is to design the beer to have an FG of 1.020.
With alcohol, and anaerobic conditions, the Lacto, Pedio, and Brett will take weeks to build up their populations to where they might start contributing flavors to the beer. Not sure you will get much, if anything out of the lacto in a 1.080 beer if pitched after the yeast. You will be relying on the Pedio to produce the lactic acid.
hllywd said:Nobody has mentioned it, but has anyone used ECY Bug Country for a Consecration batch? I scored a bottle from the last release without a real plan for it... anyone?
hllywd said:Didn't worry about stopping it on the first batch. Never heard of the idea until very recently. My primary went off like a rocket, and I racked on to what amounted to an overnight starter of the currants, a quart of starter wort, and the Roselare. Tastes good on the oak and I need to get it kegged, or bottled ASAP. I personally think the process of brewing this kit is way overthought... How did you use the Bug Country? From what I've read about it, I was thinking of using it from the start with no other yeast.
I pitched half a vial in as the primary strain, it sat on the cake for 2 months then I racked to secondary. The blend is meant to be pitched at the start of fermentation, plenty of Sacch in it.
Keep it warm, AL's Saison strains like 70f+. Can be a slow start to ferm if it's too cool.
A few facts - there is no bulk yeast strain and no Acetobacter in the mix.
There will be a total of 20 organisms in the culture: Brettanomyces yeast make up the bulk of the blend (15 strains/species) including bruxellensis, lambicus, clausenii, anomala, custersianus, nanus, naardenensis. Bretts from the old ECY blends #1 and # 9 are back including not one but two stains from Drie Font. Also the brett from ECY03 was included of course.
A wild yeast isolated from gueuze was added called Pichia membranefacians. Although very little impact is expected from this oxidative yeast (no acetic acid was detected), it is likely to assist in pellicle formation.
Two Saccharomyces yeast are included. One a sherry yeast, the second a close relative of S. cerevisae called S. paradoxus. Paradoxus has been linked to wine additions for its aromatic properties, pectinase activity, and the ability to partially convert malic to lactic acid.
Finally, two lactobacilli are added with a healthy dose of slime-producing Pediococcus. Slime produced will dissapear and be consumed by Bretts adding more complexitiy.
Off topic, but worth noting that there is no saison strain in bugcounty this year---no primary sacch strain at all actually, but there's plenty of brettanomyces to take care of primary fermentation, and two sacch strains that will play a smaller role. Here's something from the ECY facebook page:
Off topic, but worth noting that there is no saison strain in bugcounty this year---no primary sacch strain at all actually, but there's plenty of brettanomyces to take care of primary fermentation, and two sacch strains that will play a smaller role. Here's something from the ECY facebook page:
Mine is on the right. It's similar, but not the same. At 16 months the Roselare hasn't produced near the tartness of the 013113 batch of the real brew. Alcohol is on, color is on... maybe a fuzz light, oak is right, the aroma is close, but mine even lacks the tartness there. After 20 minutes in the glass mine still has a bit of foam while the Consecration has almost none. The flavor is really good, but in my opinion the Roselare falls short to make a true copy of this beer. I hope the ECY packs a little more punch.
Enter your email address to join: