CompaBrew - new homebrewing system inspired by industrial equipment.

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AStogniy

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Dear homebrewers,

We have just launched a Kickstarter campaign in order to promote the CompaBrew system – a home/nano brewing system inspired by industrial brewing equipment.

Following the link below you can read more about the system, see video and photos and back up the project.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/858727859/compabrew-semi-automated-small-batch-brewing-syste

We appreciate any kind of support from your side. Please feel free to distribute this info to your networks and to anyone, who might be interested.

You are also welcome to ask any questions and give feedback.

Thank you!

Best regards,
Alexander Stogniy

tel. +45 27 77 86 94
www.craftidgroup.com
 
Dear homebrewers,

We have just launched a Kickstarter campaign in order to promote the CompaBrew system – a home/nano brewing system inspired by industrial brewing equipment.

Following the link below you can read more about the system, see video and photos and back up the project.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/858727859/compabrew-semi-automated-small-batch-brewing-syste

We appreciate any kind of support from your side. Please feel free to distribute this info to your networks and to anyone, who might be interested.

You are also welcome to ask any questions and give feedback.

Thank you!

Best regards,
Alexander Stogniy

tel. +45 27 77 86 94
www.craftidgroup.com
 
http://www.omega.com/pptst/SRFR_SRFG.html

The working temperature range matches what's on their web site.

Looking at the video I don't recall seeing any heating elements inside the vessels.
So I suspect they bonded the heaters to the outside of the inner vessel walls then packed the remaining space with mineral wool.

That's pretty trick, but I have to believe it's an expensive process to fabricate...

Cheers!
 
Hello All,

Thank you for comments and questions.
Silicone heaters are flexible and self-adhesive. And yes, they are bounded outside and covered with insulation. It allows to have very nice, polished surface inside the vessels - really easy to clean. There is no pumps and mashing is as in a real brewery. It is not a RIMS system.
So this system is a small copy of classic brewing process - mashing, filtration, sparging, boiling.

Regarding pricing: as you correctly noticed, it`s quite an expensive process to fabricate CompaBrew, as it includes some unique features. But we believe, that these features have a good value for a home brewer.
We`ll stick to 3000USD for the complete system. You can also buy each vessel separately. It`ll be around 1200USD for a mash tun, for example.
 
Hello All,

Thank you for comments and questions.
Silicone heaters are flexible and self-adhesive. And yes, they are bounded outside and covered with insulation. It allows to have very nice, polished surface inside the vessels - really easy to clean. There is no pumps and mashing is as in a real brewery. It is not a RIMS system.
So this system is a small copy of classic brewing process - mashing, filtration, sparging, boiling.

Regarding pricing: as you correctly noticed, it`s quite an expensive process to fabricate CompaBrew, as it includes some unique features. But we believe, that these features have a good value for a home brewer.
We`ll stick to 3000USD for the complete system. You can also buy each vessel separately. It`ll be around 1200USD for a mash tun, for example.


Thank you for the update. What volumes will the final product handle in terms of mashing, boiling and end result?
 
Thank you for the update. What volumes will the final product handle in terms of mashing, boiling and end result?

In the FAQ at Kickstarter it says: "You can produce around 30 liters of wort. The final volume depends on the recipe and desired Plato. The total volume of the wort kettle is 38 liters."

Pretty cool project. Good luck with it!
 
Hi,

This seems interesting, but the lifting og boiling worth to get drain hight of the wort - this seems like a dangerous step - you guys should work to avoid.

Furthermore, why two kettles for stiring and lautering? Seems a bit like a step not needed. Why not do it all in the mash tun? and then just add lautering water?

So - if feedback is wanted. Get your hands on a good quality pump. Go with two kettles. I find the lifting realy dangerous.

--Best reg, from Norway
 
Hello!
Thank you for your feedback.
Normally, during production, empty kettles only has to be moved down. The final wort transfer can of course be done by pump. We just show the opportunity to avoid pumping, if desired by user.
Yes, one kettle is for mashing and another one is for lautering. By having this, you can already start the second brew while filtering.
Moreover, agitation in lauter tun can not be done over the sieve. The sieve will be blocked by spent grains. So it leads to repumping system, which we differ from.
 
Hello!
Thank you for your feedback.
Normally, during production, empty kettles only has to be moved down. The final wort transfer can of course be done by pump. We just show the opportunity to avoid pumping, if desired by user.
Yes, one kettle is for mashing and another one is for lautering. By having this, you can already start the second brew while filtering.
Moreover, agitation in lauter tun can not be done over the sieve. The sieve will be blocked by spent grains. So it leads to repumping system, which we differ from.

By moving down, the lowest are put higher. This is boiling wort --- Exremly dangerous in mye eyes. One bad move and you have a shower in 100C wort. Bad idea.
 
So it leads to repumping system, which we differ from.

Can you explain why you are against recirculating mash systems? It seems to be the best approach for small scale homebrewing.

Also you don't show an HLT. Where are you supposed to heat your strike and sparge water? I can't imagine that a little tea kettle is supposed to heat your entire sparge volume.
 
Good luck with your campaign.

I would suggest wider and shorter with the boil kettle raised high enough to transfer into a fermenter without raising it. That would mean you have to work backward from the total height so that the top is not too high.

There is no provision for a sparge. I would use the top vessel as a HLT, middle vessel as the Mash Tun with the false bottom there and the bottom vessel as the BK.
In other words a major re-design.

Get rid of those cheap plastic valves.

For US consumption this would be best if it worked on 110 volts, max 30 amps.

Have you projected final selling price? I would put a maximum of $1500 USD and best at about $1000 USD.
 
Hello!

Maybe I was not very clear. The mash tun and lauter tun, just being removed from top. Boiling is done on the ground level.
 
Hello!

Maybe I was not very clear. The mash tun and lauter tun, just being removed from top. Boiling is done on the ground level.

Yes except now you have to lift an entire kettle full or wort off of the ground to stack it on the two empty vessels to drain it to your fermenter. Seems like an easy way to throw out your back and have back issues for the next year....ask me how I know.
 
Hello!

We are not against any system. All systems have their pros and cons. We are offering an alternative, which allows homebrewers to brew as it is done at industrial level.

The classic mashing has some advantages, which are described on our website and kickstarter campaign page. One of these easy measurable advantages is, that you achieve better yield. The extraction process in a classic mash kettle is more efficient, than when you circulate liquid around the bulk of grains. And this is because in classic mashing all milled malt particles are equally contacting with water and being continuously agitated. In recirculation system there always "preferential channels" in the malt pack and it is difficult to control, how the extract is being taken out from the center of a grain pack. Our first tests has shown that we are around 15-20% more efficient with CompaBrew, meaning, that you need 20% less malt to do the same wort volume at the same Plato.
We claim that if you brew side by side with recirc system and CompaBrew, you`ll spend less malt to achieve same results.
 
Hello!

Maybe I was not very clear. The mash tun and lauter tun, just being removed from top. Boiling is done on the ground level.

This step is skipped in the video, you should reshoot the video and show this process in my opinion. I for one think you are on to something, but the lifting of a full kettle with wort - hot or cold is an always will be a setback.

If all the rest is great - include a pump - it`s not THAT expensive. And will remove all my worries for one.

PS. Please add notes about mash time, lauter process and so on :)

--SB, Norway
 
Hello,

Final selling price is 3000usd. The system consists of 3 insulated and cladded vessels with integrated heating elements, agitator and control system.
 
Hello,

Mashing takes 2-2,5 hours, depending on what temperature programm you set. You can have as many as you want different temparature steps.
Transfer to lauter tun take 1 minute. Filtration is about 45 min. Then boiling time again depends on how long you want to boil. It takes about 15-20 min to reach boling point after filtration.
Important to note, that you can start the next mash right after the mash kettle is emptied to lauter tun.
 
My thoughts. why are there 3 vessels? Get rid of the middle vessel, it's not needed. Put the false bottom into the mash tun and call it a day. Cost goes down and you haven't changed your process at all.

Do something about how you're filling the boil kettle. the plastic spigot into a cheap funnel just looks bad. Get some quick disconnects and provide some hoses to go between the two.

Include a stand. I hate working with something on the floor. If you go to two vessels it's not that dangerous to have sitting that much higher, and it makes working with it that much nicer.

If you're going to recommend a pump to move to the fermentation vessel then include it. You're billing this as an everything included system, make sure it is.


The system is interesting and the vessels look nice. I think with a little revision it could be a great system for those that want an everything included home setup.
 
Hello!

Thank you for the feedback. Well noted.
Regarding 2 or 3 vessels:during mashing all small grains particles, which we separate while doing the first wort recirculation will pass though the sieve and stay at the bottom. They will not be agitated and will block the outlet eventually. Also, they will be heated in uncontrolled way as we have heater at the bottom. Another thing is that you can start the second brew, not waiting for filtration.
By the way the price for the third vessel doesn`t make big difference as vessel is not equipped with heaters, or control box.

Regarding the funnel and plastic valves - this is still a working prototype. On the 3D model (available on kickstarter photo gallery) you can see the stainless steel valves and funnels. It will come with final version.

If you like a stand, then you do not need a pump. Originally we do not recommend a pump.
 
Hello!

We are not against any system. All systems have their pros and cons. We are offering an alternative, which allows homebrewers to brew as it is done at industrial level.

The classic mashing has some advantages, which are described on our website and kickstarter campaign page. One of these easy measurable advantages is, that you achieve better yield. The extraction process in a classic mash kettle is more efficient, than when you circulate liquid around the bulk of grains. And this is because in classic mashing all milled malt particles are equally contacting with water and being continuously agitated. In recirculation system there always "preferential channels" in the malt pack and it is difficult to control, how the extract is being taken out from the center of a grain pack. Our first tests has shown that we are around 15-20% more efficient with CompaBrew, meaning, that you need 20% less malt to do the same wort volume at the same Plato.
We claim that if you brew side by side with recirc system and CompaBrew, you`ll spend less malt to achieve same results.

I don't buy this. I can get 85-90+% efficiency on my eHERMS setup. So how is it that this will give me a 15-20% increase in efficiency?

The efficiency numbers I can get are with a 60 min mash with a mashout. In 2-2.5 hours I can do a full mash and sparge. You are saying that in order to get the efficiency you are claiming you need to do a 2-2.5 hour mash before sparging? If this is true, then there is still no advantage to having separate mash and lauter tuns as I can do back to back batches in the same amount of time with a single MLT.

Additionally, the channeling problem you describe above is more of a problem for fly sparging than it is for the mash rest. I don't see how your lauter tun design avoids channeling any better than any other mash tun with a decent false bottom. One could argue that you have a higher risk of channeling by pouring sparge water by hand onto the top of the lauter tun with a tea kettle as opposed to using a sparge arm that gently distributes the sparge water across the entire surface of water above the grain bed.

Most of us homebrewers are trying to find ways to shorten our brew days, not increase them. Adding an extra 1-1.5 hours to the mash/sparging process goes against the grain here.

I also don't exactly follow the process for back to back brews on a stacked system. If I'm done with my first mash and transfer to the lauter tun, I now need to remove the mash tun and place it elsewhere so I can add my sparge water on top of the lauter tun. Now I put the mash tun on the floor, or a table and begin the second mash. Once I'm done with sparging and boiling the first batch, I now need to stack all 3 vessels on top of each other to drain the mash tun and sparge. To do this I need to pick up the mash tun full of hot grain and liquid and set it on top of the other 2 vessels. This is another safety concern that has been overlooked.

As I mentioned earlier there is no HLT shown, so for $3K, you aren't even selling a complete system.

At the end of the day I see this as a gimmick. You are trying to emulate large scale brewing on a homebrew level. The advantages that you claim are not very accurate.

1. It's not a complete system (no HLT or transfer pump).
2. The efficiency is no better than a well designed recirculating mash system.
3. Safety concerns about lifting vessels full of hot liquid.
4. With a 2.5 hour mash, your brew day is longer than it could be.
5. It's expensive for an incomplete system (no HLT or pump included).

In the end of the day, just because the big boys do it doesn't mean it's practical on a homebrew level. In some cases like this one there is no real advantage to doing it like the big boys, only several disadvantages and safety concerns.
 
Your expensive given the alternatives. Compact BIAB turnkeys are 1 to 2K.. Even the high end Blichmann Easy Brew is $2400. I wish you the best of luck but it seems like a tough road ahead of you ... home brewers are cheap bastards.... they'll kill with sister to save dollar.
 
How do you replace the heaters if/when they fail? If they're in a sealed space you'd be stuck with a dead system.
 
Hello!

Sorry for late reply.
Again, thanks for your feedback.
Your concerns are clear and well described. If you are a satisfied user of eHERMs system, it will be difficult for us to convince you otherwise, especially when our price is higher.
I will only comment on two points.
1. Efficiency - there are of course many ways to calculate the percentage. When looking to Kunze, you`ll be surprised finding that the mos efficient industrial brewhouses are far below 90%...). We do not give percentage. We say, what we can do same wort with less malt. We occasionally figured that out, while brewing the recipe of one of the recirc system user.
2. Time for mashing: It is of course depends on the mashing profile. If you have only one pause at 62C or 65C, than you can probably do it quick. You can also do it with our system. On top of this our system offers an opportunity to have multiple steps (52C, 62C, 75C, 78C, for example).
 
The heaters are foreseen for min 2000 brews according to supplier. So if you brew every week, they`ll last for 40 years.
 
Hello,

Final selling price is 3000usd. The system consists of 3 insulated and cladded vessels with integrated heating elements, agitator and control system.

Guessing most of the cost is coming from the insulated vessels (which do look cool) and other electronics?

Couldnt throw in nicer fittings for this price? Those valves are what I got on a starter kit on my buckets 6 years ago.

I also have an issue with having to use that weird hook thing to pull the plug on the mash tun. Seems.... odd.
 
The heaters are foreseen for min 2000 brews according to supplier. So if you brew every week, they`ll last for 40 years.

That may be true, but in the real world mechanical failures happen. If the heaters conk out on a couple-thousand-dollar hunk of equipment and there's no way to replace them, you have a couple-thousand-dollar paperweight.
 

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