Cold Steeping Roast Barley

[ArcLight]

Denny Conn and Drew Beechum wrote a very good book titled "Experimental Homebrewing: Mad Science in the Pursuit of Great Beer".

http://www.amazon.com/dp/0760345384/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

One of the methods they discuss is using more roast barley but cold steeping it rather than adding it to the mash. The idea is to cut down on the harshness and astringency. They suggest using 2-3 times more roast barley since the colder temperature wont be as effective at extracting the flavor.

Can anyone who has tried this share their experience?
(How much additional roast barley did you use, How did you like it, Any problems?)

 

[ArcLight]

I'll add that I made two "teas" one using 3 ounces of roast barley soaked over night vs. 1 ounce or roast barley hot steeped at 155 for an hour.
I used 40 ounces of water , to match the ratios of a 5 gallon beer.
The 1 ounce had a water taste, while the 3 ounce had a nicer taste.
But maybe it was due to the 3:1 ratio and not the cold vs hot steep.

If I repeat the experiment I reduce the water to 20 ounces.

 

[tochsner]

I have not cold steeped the dark malts but I have been keeping them out of my mash for a long time. I heat all my brewing liquor at once and I steep all my dark malts that don't need to mash in the hot liquor tank as I heat to strike temperature. I then just mash and sparge as normal with the dark water. It works great. I have gotten some high scores with my Schwartzbier and my Black IPA with this technique.

 

[Calder]

I steep all my dark malts that don't need to mash .

Steeping dark grains will extract about 8 points per lb. You do know they contain a lot off starches that can be converted to sugars in a mash. Dark grains can contribute almost as much as base malts if mashed.

 

[Mikeystew]

My favourite technique so far is hot steeping roast barley on it's own at 160F for half hour with 1/4 tsp each chalk and bicarbonate. 2 quarts water per pound.

I filter the liquid out through voile fabric and gently squeeze the grain, but don't rinse it. The extract I add at the end of the boil.
The roast aroma is intense and it has very little astringency.

 

[Reisende]

Dark grains can contribute almost as much as base malts if mashed.

That's actually not quite true. While it is true that a higher temperature will extract color/flavor faster than a cooler temperature, mashing serves no chemical purpose. The reason that crystal and roasted malt does not need to be mashed is that saccrification has occurred in the grain husk, completed by the maltster. In the case of crystal malts, the maltster converted the starches to sugar and then roasted the malt to a certain degree (the higher the lovibond number, the more roasted the malt).

Roasted grains, like chocolate malt, have had their starches converted and then undergone caramelization, creating the burnt sugar to coffee to just burnt flavors. The darker the roast, the lower the amount of gravity points contributed. Their is no enzymatic reason to mash these malts, as there are no starches left to convert. There are some dextrinous sugars that are not fermentable by brewers yeast, especially in the crystal malts.

Steeping, both cold and hot, as well as adding these grains to the vorlauf are sufficient to extract the color and flavor from them.

 

[Mikeystew]

That's actually not quite true. While it is true that a higher temperature will extract color/flavor faster than a cooler temperature, mashing serves no chemical purpose. The reason that crystal and roasted malt does not need to be mashed is that saccrification has occurred in the grain husk, completed by the maltster. In the case of crystal malts, the maltster converted the starches to sugar and then roasted the malt to a certain degree (the higher the lovibond number, the more roasted the malt).

Roasted grains, like chocolate malt, have had their starches converted and then undergone caramelization, creating the burnt sugar to coffee to just burnt flavors. The darker the roast, the lower the amount of gravity points contributed. Their is no enzymatic reason to mash these malts, as there are no starches left to convert. There are some dextrinous sugars that are not fermentable by brewers yeast, especially in the crystal malts.

Steeping, both cold and hot, as well as adding these grains to the vorlauf are sufficient to extract the color and flavor from them.

You are right about chocolate malts, but Roast barley is made from unmalted raw barley. It does contain some starches that can be converted but how much I don't know. A lot of it must be broken down through the high heat roasting process.

I will say though I much prefer roast barley hot or cold steeped, and not mashed. There is a noticeable difference in flavour.

 

[MindenMan]

I add my roasted barley at vorlauf.

 

[Calder]

That's actually not quite true. While it is true that a higher temperature will extract color/flavor faster than a cooler temperature, mashing serves no chemical purpose. The reason that crystal and roasted malt does not need to be mashed is that saccrification has occurred in the grain husk, completed by the maltster. In the case of crystal malts, the maltster converted the starches to sugar and then roasted the malt to a certain degree (the higher the lovibond number, the more roasted the malt).

Roasted grains, like chocolate malt, have had their starches converted and then undergone caramelization, creating the burnt sugar to coffee to just burnt flavors. The darker the roast, the lower the amount of gravity points contributed. Their is no enzymatic reason to mash these malts, as there are no starches left to convert. There are some dextrinous sugars that are not fermentable by brewers yeast, especially in the crystal malts.

Steeping, both cold and hot, as well as adding these grains to the vorlauf are sufficient to extract the color and flavor from them.

Sorry, you are wrong. No point in trying to debate you as you have obviously made your mind up. Someday you will figure it out.

For crystal extraction and fermentability, you can try searching for a thread by nilo who did some experiments on it.

 

[Reisende]

you can try searching for a thread by nilo who did some experiments on it.

Are you talking about this thread?

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=208361

EDIT: You know what, you're right there is no point in debating this, because that is not helping the OP. Sorry for getting your drawers in a wad over it, and I would remind you that the OP was referencing roasted barley, not crystal malt.

 

[Mikeystew]

Crystal malts are stewed at sacc temps to covert their starches into sugars before being roasted to various lovibonds, and this includes chocolate malt and some other roasted malts.

BUT, roasted barley on the other hand, which this thread was about, is not a crystal malt. It has not been stewed before roasting. It is all starches to begin with. It's a different animal.

 

[tagz]

Settle down ladies.

 

[ArcLight]

I'm less concerned with the additional fermentables and more concerned with the roast taste and aroma. If cold steeping doesn't extract as much (any) of the fermentables from the roast barley I can use a little more base malt.

 

[Weezy]

As far as the ops question, whats the point? Why are you using roast barley to begin with? Do you want that characteristic roast flavor? Is a color correction? Both? If you want the roast flavor but without the harshness, you could consider using other less harsh grains like chocolate wheat or blackprintz or midnight wheat, or a combination of roast and midnight wheat.

Point is, why create more work for yourself when you can more wisely choose your grains.

 

[ArcLight]

As far as the ops question, whats the point? Why are you using roast barley to begin with? Do you want that characteristic roast flavor? Is a color correction? Both? If you want the roast flavor but without the harshness, you could consider using other less harsh grains like chocolate wheat or blackprintz or midnight wheat, or a combination of roast and midnight wheat.

Point is, why create more work for yourself when you can more wisely choose your grains.

Because the beer will taste better.
I hope.

I came across this in reading Gordon Strong, Denny Conn, and Drew Beechums books. They are experienced brewers and suggest the Stout will taste better. I'm willing to create more work if it makes better beer. And cold steeping a couple of pounds of grain is not exactly back breaking. :fro:


>>If you want the roast flavor but without the harshness, you could consider using other less harsh grains like chocolate wheat or blackprintz or midnight wheat, or a combination of roast and midnight wheat.

This is true, but I'd still like to know if anyone has done what Gordon Strong and Denny Conn suggest.