Cold steep chocolate malt post-ferment? Adding chocolate flavor..

[hasenman]

I've recently made an imperial porter that I will put into an oak barrel soon. In tasting the beer recently, I noticed the chocolate malt flavor hasn't come through as much as I would've liked. This will be my most ambitious beer and second oak cask so I'm focused on not messing it up. And, I can't get cacao nibs easily, but I have chocolate malt on hand and access to high-quality (chocolaty) coffee..

So, I'm considering:

1.) Cold steeping some chocolate malt and adding to carboy. I've read a few articles and whatnot but can't seem to get a definitive answer as to whether I should boil (to sanitize) the chocolate wort after the steep or will the 8% alcohol post primary fermentation will protect the wort from infection. I really don't want this beer to go bad..I've got 13 gallons of delicious beer that I don't want ruined by this addition.

Also, thinking of cold steeping some crystal 120 or Caramunich 3 for added dark fruit flavors. Any complications with cold steeping those?

2.) My cafe/roaster friend has some really good chocolaty coffee. Thinking of adding this as well, or just adding this considering I'm a little paranoid about the cold steep chocolate malt adding bugs. The brewed version of this coffee is better than the cold steeped coffee so I'm not so paranoid about unboiled coffee/water going into the carboy.

3.) Leaning toward mixing the two to give that complementary complexity from coffee/chocolate malt/beer..

Any and all thoughts, experiences and suggestions are very welcome!

 

[Pappers_]

I'd only consider #2 and wouldn't mess with steeping grains post-fermentation. If you do, definitely boil it - grain is covered with wild stuff.

 

[hasenman]

I've got some Carafa II and Caramunich III coming and would think they would really blend in well with the flavors I've already got--a half imperial porter, barleywine kind of flavor.

I'd like to kick it more towards the porter side though if it's not too much risk.

I don't mind doing the extra work (boil 15 minutes) to add the cold-steeped malts because I'd also like some extra body as well. And, I'll add a small amount of coffee just for complexity.

So, I'm guessing I'll go with 75/25 or 60/40 Carafa/Caramunich III for the cold steep.

Any other possible troubles I might get from doing this (especially from the Caramunich)? I'm guessing the Caramunich might have some unconverted starches?

 

[TwistedHops]

I'm not sure it's going to give you the chocolatey goodness that you're after with just specialty grain water. You won't be adding any additional sugar with that step either, so your body will remain the same.

My honest opinion, which you may not like, is to source some cocoa nibs and bourbon them up.

 

[chickypad]

I agree with the others, chocolate malt doesn't really give what most of us think of as straight chocolate flavors. I've certainly gotten chocolate notes in dark beers with just malts, but more commonly with lighter roasted combos like pale chocolate. More importantly, if your beer is 8% you OG must have been what 1.078, 1.080? I don't think you'll get anything close to that steeping so whatever you choose - chocolate, carafa or cara munich - seems to me you'll be watering down the finished beer, which may actually make things worse. I like the nibs in bourbon idea if you're doing an oaked beer, or nibs in vodka. Lastly you said you recently brewed this, maybe it needs some aging time for the flavors to round out?

 

[hasenman]

Thanks for the reply, gents! Yeah, when I tasted it, it was in its 3rd week--still had some yeast and whatnot floating around. That might not have given me a clear taste--was a 1.077 post-boil and added a kg of dark honey in primary so probably closer to 9% ABV now.

I was planning on using a very heavy spring water (400+ CaCO3) to do the cold-steep with to try to add body along with the malts (because slightly lacking). I'll use less water so as not to dilute too much (good suggestion, chickypad!).

I live in bumfunk China so sourcing cacao nibs isn't easy, but doable from internet (but I'd have to wait..again). I'm not trying to poopoo you guys' ideas--which would probably be better! I'm just trying to work with what I have.

Plus, I wasn't thinking to get a 'blam--chocolate!' flavor out of it the beer--just add some additional taste to the already existing hint of chocolate. Instead of 'looking for' the chocolate, I'd like it to be there but also blend with the other flavors. (I did one carboy with the new Lallemand Abbaye yeast because I didn't have other yeast, and it came out slightly bubblegummy :/ so, I'm mainly trying to cover that up a little without it becoming dominant chocolate..other carboy was Notty and on-style with more a brown porter color).

I think I'm gonna try the cold steep though, with some shots of my friend's roasted coffee--just because it'll be easier to source everything (quality bourbon also tough to get around here and I'm not a JackD fan). Btw, the barrel dried out before I could get it ;( so I'm gonna soak oak cubes in scotch (good quality scotch; Longrow, yumm!).

Like I said, I'm just looking to add slight chocolate/touch of coffee flavors and not a dominate chocolate profile.

So, my main concern with doing the cold-steep: would there be any problems with starches--especially the Caramunich III (which could be voided)?

And thanks again for reading my overly-complex ideas on this and advising!

 

[castillo556]

Are you looking for chocolate flavor/aroma?

If so, steeping chocolate malt ain't gonna do it.

Since you can't get nibs, boil a bit of water then simmer and stir in 4-5 oz cocoa powder until you have a nice chocolaty syrup. pour into your fermentor but expect alot of trub. That should give you the chocolate flavor you are looking for.

 

[hasenman]

Hmm, I've gotten nice chocolate notes from this malt before. But, that was about 10 months ago on a lower gravity porter. I'm not looking for a heavy chocolate aroma/flavor..just to have it complement the dark fruits from crystal 60/120 and coffee notes from black malt. All of those flavors seemed slightly muted (as mentioned it might have been the me tasting it when yeast still in suspension).

I actually sat down with my coffee roaster friend testing out coffees for it, and just really wanted more of those darker crystal, dark malt flavors--I don't want it to be 'chocolate forward' like many beers, just wanna add a touch of everything.

I love Weyermann's malts and have a small shipment coming very soon of Caramunich III and Carafa II. I'd like to get those flavors in the beer..seems like this is the only way. Seems like the cold-steeping will allow for the flavor intensity that I want--not too much.

I always steep my darker crystals and dark malts in the BK for my porter, so I'm a big fan of the possible flavors. But, I've never done cold steeping before..and obviously, adding it post-fermentation.

Now, leaning toward .4 lb CM III，.4lb Choc., .2 Carafa II in a 1.5L-2L heavy spring water bath to add to 12-13 gallons--which should give it flavor/aroma, but not dominate.

Or, if I'm going to boil for sterilization anyway, could I just steep it like I do in wort pre-boil for 20-30 minutes then boil? Or, would having water instead of wort somehow change flavors?

Still wondering about those starches though from the Caramunich III.

Any guesses out there?

 

[divrack]

I'd like to hear what you went with in the end.
I did a lack ipa sorry of thing and added a bunch of black malt cold steeped. It was pretty darn good. Possibly slightly too much, but the back of throat acridity was just barely noticeable as a pleasant dimension and there was bags of licorice and coffee which worked perfectly with the Columbus hops