coffee Stout?

[Jthornburgh]

What do you think?

Style: American Stout
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (30.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 7.26 gal
Post Boil Volume: 6.76 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 6.25 gal
Bottling Volume: 5.00 gal
Estimated OG: 1.063 SG
Estimated Color: 45.9 SRM
Estimated IBU: 39.3 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 80.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 83.5 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
9 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 64.3 %
1 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM) Grain 2 7.1 %
1 lbs Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 3 7.1 %
1 lbs Chocolate Wheat Malt (400.0 SRM) Grain 4 7.1 %
8.0 oz Roasted Barley (300.0 SRM) Grain 5 3.6 %
4.0 oz Acid Malt (3.0 SRM) Grain 6 1.8 %
4.0 oz Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 7 1.8 %
1.00 oz Chinook [13.00 %] - First Wort 60.0 min Hop 8 39.3 IBUs
1 lbs Milk Sugar (Lactose), at 30 min (0.0 SRM Sugar 9 7.1 %
0.50 gal Coffee (Cold Brewed from 4Oz), (Boil 0.0 mins) Flavor 10 -
1.0 pkg San Diego Super Yeast (White Labs #WLP09 Yeast 11 -


Mash Schedule: BIAB, Full Body
Total Grain Weight: 14 lbs
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Saccharification Add 32.85 qt of water at 165.8 F 156.0 F 60 min
Mash Out Heat to 168.0 F over 7 min 168.0 F 10 min

 

[m00ps]

I would suggest adding whole or lightly curshed beans to the fermentor instead of cold steep additions. The issue with coffee in beers is that it can get very acrid after a few weeks of aging. From trying flameout, cold steep, and whole bean additions, ive found whole beans used like a dry hop is by far the best method in terms of the coffee flavor itself and how long it sticks around.

Other than that, a bit more specialty malts than I would use, but the grain bill looks good

 

[BigMack]

Couple thoughts.

In my opinion if you're going to go the cold brew route I would add it right before packaging or just go with the whole bean "dry hop" as previously mentioned

I might also go with a yeast that won't attenuate quite as much as the 099 will.

 

[Jthornburgh]

What would you recommend? I used 02 in a oatmeal stout and it finished a little early.

 

[Yooper]

Why the acid malt? I don't think it's needed, and may make a very 'tart' flavor that would not go well with coffee.

That's a lot of chocolate malt, far too much for my taste.

 

[BigMack]

I think using 001 or 051 would be your best bet. I make my coffee stout using Wyeast 1272 (WLP 051) and it turns out great. They both attenuate less than 099, but more than english strains will.

 

[m00ps]

I agree with the acid malt. I use it in a lot of my beers, but they dont have any roasted or dark grains in them. In general the darker the grain, the more it will contribute to lowering the mash pH. So in any stout or porter, you wont need acid malt unless there is something very wrong with your water

 

[Jthornburgh]

ez water calculator estimates the pH at 5.65 without the and malt. I could drop it with 4 grams each of CaCl2 and MgSO4.

It is being alive 5.6 OK for a stout?

How would you suggest changeing the specialty malts?

 

[HomebrewSupply]

You could consider adding the cold brew at bottling (or in secondary, if you're doing one), or "dry beaning" which some people have had good luck with. Lots of info here on coffee additions: http://www.homebrewsupply.com/learn/adding-coffee-to-your-homebrew.html

 

[snowveil]

I'm pretty much on point with a lot of the answers here already.

4oz of carapils...how much effect will that really have in this beer? Is it worth complicating your grain bill?

Ditch the acid malt. Don't treat online pH calculators as the gospel. If you're using a pH meter to actually measure your mash pH, you can start making adjustments from there. Otherwise, keep it simple.

The amount of chocolate malt *is* pretty high for this recipe...I'd probably drop the dark malts down to 12oz chocolate, 8oz roast, 8oz chocolate wheat. Keep in mind you're going to get some flavor overlap with the coffee anyway. Keep the acidity and malt "acrid" flavors down as to not introduce a "diner coffee" character when it's done. Chocolate wheat is a good choice, as would be Briess Blackprinz.

I'm also a fan of Wyeast 1272, and also have used WLP013 successfully. San Diego Super would work, but you don't typically want super attenuation in a stout anyway. Some body in the finished beer can be really nice.

As for adding the coffee, I typically use 2-4oz of coarsely cracked beans added straight to the keg in a muslin bag. If you're bottling, add them to primary a few days before bottling. You really only need 1-3 days like this. Why cold steep the coffee beans in water when you can steep them in the finished beer?

Cheers, and as always let us know how it turns out!

 

[MVKTR2]

A couple things, others are correct on beans-dry hop approach for the coffee being the preferred method. However I've loved what I've done with cold brewed coffee concentrate (from Cool Brew in New Orleans) by adding it directly to the keg.

Your roasted malt rate is almost 18%. The roasted malt additions to the wort either don't ferment out at as high a rate as other malts or don't ferment at all. This leaves you with a higher final gravity. If you're okay with this, fine, if not reduce the roast malts to 9-12% of the grist. From experience I've brewed Imperial Stouts at 8.5-9% abv(low end of the range for the style) with 20-22% roasted malt and they finish with a high final gravity, very chewy. In judging most of the time they do well as they are perceived to be HUGE beers that are clean. Keep in mind that yeast selection and a high pitching rate will be very important in how a 'high roast' beer turns out also. I happen to like it but you've got to consider how to work with it and not treat it as if it were a more normal practice.

Finally with that much roast malt drop the carapils and add wheat if you must have it.

 

[Yooper]

ez water calculator estimates the pH at 5.65 without the and malt. I could drop it with 4 grams each of CaCl2 and MgSO4.

It is being alive 5.6 OK for a stout?

How would you suggest changeing the specialty malts?

EZ water has been a poor guestimator of actual mash pH for me- I stopped using it as a result. I really can't imagine that your mash pH would be 5.65 with that grainbill, but it's possible if you have an extraordinary amount of bicarbonate in your water I suppose. I'd suggest trying Brewer's Friend or bru'nwater for a more accurate guess. The last time I used EZ it was .3 too high- a huge difference!

I would not increase the sulfate in a stout, so I'd ditch the MgS04 for sure.

5.5 or so would be a perfect mash pH.

 

[Jthornburgh]

EZ water has been a poor guestimator of actual mash pH for me- I stopped using it as a result. I really can't imagine that your mash pH would be 5.65 with that grainbill, but it's possible if you have an extraordinary amount of bicarbonate in your water I suppose. I'd suggest trying Brewer's Friend or bru'nwater for a more accurate guess. The last time I used EZ it was .3 too high- a huge difference!

I would not increase the sulfate in a stout, so I'd ditch the MgS04 for sure.

5.5 or so would be a perfect mash pH.

My Bicarbonate level is 178, and the PH is 7.8

 

[Jthornburgh]

How does this look? I've been editing, and reediting as I read you comments. Roasted malts are 11.4%

Boil Size: 7.26 gal
Post Boil Volume: 6.76 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 6.25 gal
Bottling Volume: 5.00 gal
Estimated OG: 1.060 SG
Estimated Color: 32.6 SRM
Estimated IBU: 40.4 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 80.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 83.5 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes
ABV 4.8%

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
9 lbs 8.0 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 73.1 %
1 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM) Grain 2 7.7 %
8.0 oz Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 3 3.8 %
8.0 oz Chocolate Wheat Malt (400.0 SRM) Grain 4 3.8 %
8.0 oz Roasted Barley (300.0 SRM) Grain 5 3.8 %
1.00 oz Chinook [13.00 %] - First Wort 60.0 min Hop 6 40.4 IBUs
1 lbs Milk Sugar (Lactose), at 30 min (0.0 SRM Sugar 7 7.7 %
1.0 pkg British Ale (White Labs #WLP005) [35.49 Yeast 8 -
4.00 oz Coffee (Primary 0.0 mins) Flavor 9 -

 

[PeteNMA]

You should be good with that. As Yooper said, there is no was that you are going to need acid malt with that much chocolate and roasted barley with your bicarbonate below 200ppm.

Personally I'd consider splitting the chocolate between Pale and Dark Chocolate in a 3:1 or 4:1 ratio. You should get plenty of color from the roasted barley and the chocolate wheat, and splitting the pale/dark choc adds a nice complexity to the flavour. I'd also use a British medium crystal (usually about 55L or 130EBC) rather than C-40.

Depending on your chloride level you might add some calcium chloride, aim for a chloride concentration of around 80-100ppm. A touch of sulfate might be a good addition depending on your existing levels. Again aim for 80-100ppm as you're aiming to add a little crispness, rather than full on bitterness from the sulfate.

Don't add MgSO4 unless you want a double purpose beer and laxative.

If you don't have a pH meter it might be a good time to get one. You can pick up a cheap and cheerful Hanna unit on Amazon for about $10. Dough in, give it five minutes to stabilize, pull a clear sample of wort, chill it down to room temp (I use a metal shot glass then stick it in the fridge for 5 minutes) then measure. You should be aiming for about pH 5.5 - 5.8 at room temperature. If you are below pH 5.3 then you can add some sodium bicarbonate, otherwise let it rip.

 

[Jthornburgh]

If you don't have a pH meter it might be a good time to get one. You can pick up a cheap and cheerful Hanna unit on Amazon for about $10. Dough in, give it five minutes to stabilize, pull a clear sample of wort, chill it down to room temp (I use a metal shot glass then stick it in the fridge for 5 minutes) then measure. You should be aiming for about pH 5.5 - 5.8 at room temperature. If you are below pH 5.3 then you can add some sodium bicarbonate, otherwise let it rip.

I do have one, my last Mash PH was right on with the calculation.

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
5.00 oz Calcium Chloride (Mash 60.0 mins) Water Agent 1 -
9 lbs 8.0 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 2 73.1 %
1 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM) Grain 3 7.7 %
8.0 oz Chocolate Wheat Malt (400.0 SRM) Grain 4 3.8 %
8.0 oz Roasted Barley (300.0 SRM) Grain 5 3.8 %
6.0 oz Pale Chocolate Malt (200.0 SRM) Grain 6 2.9 %
2.0 oz Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 7 1.0 %
1.00 oz Chinook [13.00 %] - First Wort 60.0 min Hop 8 40.4 IBUs
1 lbs Milk Sugar (Lactose), at 30 min (0.0 SRM Sugar 9 7.7 %
1.0 pkg British Ale (White Labs #WLP005) [35.49 Yeast 10 -
4.00 oz Coffee (Primary 0.0 mins) Flavor 11 -

 

[Yooper]

With an alkalinity of 178, that is probably correct. I'm not sure how much the mash pH will drop with 5 grams (I assume you meant grams, of course, not ounces!), so you may need the acid malt. I'd shoot for a pH of 5.5, so you definitely wouldn't need much.

I think it looks good with the edits, and I know I'd like that beer!

 

[Jthornburgh]

With an alkalinity of 178, that is probably correct. I'm not sure how much the mash pH will drop with 5 grams (I assume you meant grams, of course, not ounces!), so you may need the acid malt. I'd shoot for a pH of 5.5, so you definitely wouldn't need much.

I think it looks good with the edits, and I know I'd like that beer!

Yes grams. Thanks for all the input, I have the starter going now, and will pick up the grain tomorrow.