CO2 leak?

[Mike89]

Finally kegged my first batch ever (vanilla porter) about a month ago and it still isn't carbonated. I used carbonation calculators and for 2.1 volumes at 50F (10c) I set my regulator at 12.5 psi. I sampled at 3 days and was undercarbed as expected. Sampled at 5 days and was about the same until about 10 days when I cranked up the psi to 20-30 psi and shook the keg. I can hear the co2 entering the keg as well. Still was fairly flat but it did get better. I then set it back to dispensing pressure and it has remained somewhat flat. I did the high psi/ shake a few more times with no noticeable increase in carbonation I checked the co2 cylinder and regulator for a leak by submerging it in water to no avail. I also checked the tap and fittings with soap with no bubbles to be seen. Only thing I didn't check in depth was the party faucet. Is it possible for this to leak CO2 without leaking beer? I am pretty new so am I missing something or doing something wrong? Thanks for reading Another undercarbed beer thread. And yes, I did a search and tried everything I found.


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[chickypad]

If the keg is holding pressure the beer should be carbed by now, assuming temp and pressure are accurate. Is this a new regulator, the gauge isn't stuck or anything? I know you're aiming to carb for style with the 2.0-2.1 vols, so when you say "somewhat flat" you're not comparing to typical commercial beer levels, right?

 

[porterpounder]

2 volumes is not very much carbonation. The carbonation will also seem less on the palate at 50 F than the standard 36-38 serving temp of most kegged American ales. I prefer a porter with a bit less carbonation than other ales, but try going for 2.2 volumes and use a longer dispensing hose to avoid foaming. If you hook it up at 20-30 psi and shake, CO2 will get into the beer, but when you dial it back down and pour a couple pints the equilibrium of the beer and the lower keg pressure will will decrease the CO2 in solution again and put you at the lower volume. Once CO2 is in the beer, even in the keg, it can come back out if not kept into solution with appropriate pressure and temperature.

 

[Mike89]

If the keg is holding pressure the beer should be carbed by now, assuming temp and pressure are accurate. Is this a new regulator, the gauge isn't stuck or anything? I know you're aiming to carb for style with the 2.0-2.1 vols, so when you say "somewhat flat" you're not comparing to typical commercial beer levels, right?

It is a new regulator, and the needle does seem to stick when decreasing the PSI, but not increasing. I've watched some youtube videos of the regulator (taprite dual) and everyone seems to do the same thing. Also, no, I'm not comparing to macro's if that's what you mean. I compare it to say, a Breckinridge vanilla porter or similar brew.


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[Mike89]

2 volumes is not very much carbonation. The carbonation will also seem less on the palate at 50 F than the standard 36-38 serving temp of most kegged American ales. I prefer a porter with a bit less carbonation than other ales, but try going for 2.2 volumes and use a longer dispensing hose to avoid foaming. If you hook it up at 20-30 psi and shake, CO2 will get into the beer, but when you dial it back down and pour a couple pints the equilibrium of the beer and the lower keg pressure will will decrease the CO2 in solution again and put you at the lower volume. Once CO2 is in the beer, even in the keg, it can come back out if not kept into solution with appropriate pressure and temperature.

I thought the same thing about the temp and the mouthfeel, so I filled up a growler, threw it in the fridge and it seemed just as flat if not more so (some has to seep out of the cap even though there is a good seal). With the shake and high psi everyone seems to do, they aren't dispensing at 20-30 PSI, so why doesn't their CO2 come out of solution and undercarbonate?

 

[Bobby_M]

Well no, actually filling a growler at 50F is taking a step backwards. Whatever carb level you've achieved at this point in the keg is one thing but dispensing at that temp is a little tricky. For one thing, there's a very good chance your tubing is a little too short. How fast does the beer come out of the faucet now?

 

[Mike89]

Well no, actually filling a growler at 50F is taking a step backwards. Whatever carb level you've achieved at this point in the keg is one thing but dispensing at that temp is a little tricky. For one thing, there's a very good chance your tubing is a little too short. How fast does the beer come out of the faucet now?

I had it at the length I bought it at initially (10ft) and it seemed slow, but would get a small head. After reading about balancing the keg system, I cut it down to 6ft and now it is way too fast, and get about 3/4 foam. Back to 10ft here I come! Now I have it at about 47F and at 10PSI. I am just trying to drink colder beer out of my ferm chamber until I can get a kegerator. It wont get any colder without ice bottles than that, but that is a whole other can of worms.

 

[chickypad]

Also, no, I'm not comparing to macro's if that's what you mean. I compare it to say, a Breckinridge vanilla porter or similar brew.

I wasn't necessarily referring to macro brews. I've not had the Breckenridge but most commercial porters and stouts (talking craft brews here) are not actually carbed that low, unless they are being served on nitro or cask conditioned. I was wondering if you really are at 2 vols or so and just don't realize it.

 

[Mike89]

I wasn't necessarily referring to macro brews. I've not had the Breckenridge but most commercial porters and stouts (talking craft brews here) are not actually carbed that low, unless they are being served on nitro or cask conditioned. I was wondering if you really are at 2 vols or so and just don't realize it.

I guess its possible as this was my first brew ever and consequently haven't experienced with CO2 volumes before. I will be brewing again in the next week or so (maybe a pumpkin ale?), and I will just try to carbonate for higher volumes and see if I end up with the same issue. Thanks!

 

[porterpounder]

Yeah putting it in a growler and chilling it wouldn't do anything for increasing carbonation. You would have to reduce the temperature while under CO2 pressure. Carbonating is literally forcing gas into the liquid solution until it reaches equilibrium. The gas will remain in a still solution until it is forced out again either by shaking while not under pressure, dispensing it, or setting the serving pressure too low and allowing the gas/liquid ratio to reach a different equilibrium at a lower volume.

The shaking method works because as you move the beer around it increases the ability of the gas at high psi to dissolve into the liquid quicker.