CIP Each ball valve

[kickflip_mj]

Im getting tired of taking apart each ball valve to clean the insides of them. I could be 100% CIP if i didnt have to take apart each valve and clean the insides between batches. It makes it even more of a pain since my rig is 100% hard plumed.

What i was thinking. Adding in "in" and "out" to each ball valve underside and daisy chaining all my valves together so i can pump PBW through them?

 

[wardens355]

Could you heat up PBW solution and recirculate, then exercise all valves on the discharge side of your operation while pumping to clear anything stuck in there? Then gravity drain the hot solution while exercising any suction valves to clear debris?

I clean similar to this, but I am not completely hardpiped so I can swap my lines to discharge through all my valves and exercise them. Then I rinse with a bunch of water and call it good. There might be some small amount of debris in the valves still, but I recirculate boiling wort for 10 minutes at the end of boil and am not concerned about it.

 

[kickflip_mj]

Could you heat up PBW solution and recirculate, then exercise all valves on the discharge side of your operation while pumping to clear anything stuck in there? Then gravity drain the hot solution while exercising any suction valves to clear debris?

I clean similar to this, but I am not completely hardpiped so I can swap my lines to discharge through all my valves and exercise them. Then I rinse with a bunch of water and call it good. There might be some small amount of debris in the valves still, but I recirculate boiling wort for 10 minutes at the end of boil and am not concerned about it.

I do exercise them, while pumping hot pbw through them. but I still find some really nasty stuff hiding in them, on top of it the liquid sits inside them till the next brew. Take apart a valve next time and let me know. You think if i drilled a small hole in the bottom of the valve it would leak a bunch when brewing?

 

[wardens355]

I do exercise them, while pumping hot pbw through them. but I still find some really nasty stuff hiding in them, on top of it the liquid sits inside them till the next brew. Take apart a valve next time and let me know. You think if i drilled a small hole in the bottom of the valve it would leak a bunch when brewing?

I have opened them up and they can get kind of rank, especially if there are some chunks in there to start fermenting/rotting. However, I have not found much debris in them after implementing my hot (190F) PBW rinse after every session. I'll check one tonight that has had 3 sessions since a thorough cleaning.

I wouldn't recommend drilling a hole in the valve. If the gunk is stuck anywhere but where that hole is, you will not remove it (you will also leak). How about this idea: before a new brew session, circulate some hot tap water through your whole system and exercise your valves. Any nasty liquid should be pretty much cleared out. Trace amounts won't matter for pre-boil activities because they won't be detectable, and there isn't time for propagation of bugs before the boil. Only routinely disassemble a valve for thorough cleaning if it will (1) see cooled wort and also (2) not be sterilized during the boil.

Other than something like that, I cannot see a way around opening them up if you are worried about the hidden stuff. Do you routinely open up your pump head? Gunk can sometimes hide in there, too.

 

[kickflip_mj]

I have opened them up and they can get kind of rank, especially if there are some chunks in there to start fermenting/rotting. However, I have not found much debris in them after implementing my hot (190F) PBW rinse after every session. I'll check one tonight that has had 3 sessions since a thorough cleaning.

I wouldn't recommend drilling a hole in the valve. If the gunk is stuck anywhere but where that hole is, you will not remove it (you will also leak). How about this idea: before a new brew session, circulate some hot tap water through your whole system and exercise your valves. Any nasty liquid should be pretty much cleared out. Trace amounts won't matter for pre-boil activities because they won't be detectable, and there isn't time for propagation of bugs before the boil. Only routinely disassemble a valve for thorough cleaning if it will (1) see cooled wort and also (2) not be sterilized during the boil.

Other than something like that, I cannot see a way around opening them up if you are worried about the hidden stuff. Do you routinely open up your pump head? Gunk can sometimes hide in there, too.

You have a very valid point. I have been getting a lot of infected batches lately and its pissing me off.

 

[kickflip_mj]

Could you heat up PBW solution and recirculate, then exercise all valves on the discharge side of your operation while pumping to clear anything stuck in there? Then gravity drain the hot solution while exercising any suction valves to clear debris?

I clean similar to this, but I am not completely hardpiped so I can swap my lines to discharge through all my valves and exercise them. Then I rinse with a bunch of water and call it good. There might be some small amount of debris in the valves still, but I recirculate boiling wort for 10 minutes at the end of boil and am not concerned about it.

I couldnt help myself and its awesome! When the valve cycles with the screw plug off it squirts cleaner out. I may do this to every valve so i can prolong tear down cleaning.

 

[wardens355]

Just opened up one of my valves and its almost spotless and no smell. Interesting gadget!

 

[kickflip_mj]

Just opened up one of my valves and its almost spotless and no smell. Interesting gadget!

well you are a lucky man, thanks for checking. I think im going to do this on every valve for a peace of mind. Mine must leak, at least I can clean them when need be. It was really easy, I just drilled a hole and soldered the fitting in. it took 30 minutes for the first one. im sure it will take 10 per after this.

 

[kickflip_mj]

I also plan on getting a mini lathe or mill to take the threads out and add tri clovers to each. shouldnt be hard.

 

[JonW]

I use garden hose pressure to flush my pumps, valves and lines at the end of a brew day. About every 6 months, I heat and circulate PBW through everything and then rinse. I brew every 2-4 weeks (two 15 gallon batches each brew day).

I have never had an infected batch. Anything that might grow in there is going to die a sudden death when it hits the boil. Part of my boil process is to recirculate through my plate chiller for the last 10 minutes of the boil. That will kill everything.

Sanitation is good - especially on everything post boil - like your fermenter, kegs, etc. I think basic cleaning works fine for the brew rig since everything is going through the boil process.

 

[kickflip_mj]

Sadly ever since I have moved (water) and built a new rig, its all been downhill. I cant seem to get a decent batch. Tonight I dumped a 15 gal oatmeal stout, so basically i am doing everything I can to make sure it not bacteria and that my water is on point.

 

[wardens355]

Sadly ever since I have moved (water) and built a new rig, its all been downhill. I cant seem to get a decent batch. Tonight I dumped a 15 gal oatmeal stout, so basically i am doing everything I can to make sure it not bacteria and that my water is on point.

That sucks. Dumping beer can really kill the enthusiasm for the hobby sometimes. Have you revisited how you are propagating your yeast?

I assume that for the valves you are using cheapo small electric actuators with a weep hole drilled in the bottom to bleed out PBW solution when cleaning?

 

[kickflip_mj]

That sucks. Dumping beer can really kill the enthusiasm for the hobby sometimes. Have you revisited how you are propagating your yeast?

I assume that for the valves you are using cheapo small electric actuators with a weep hole drilled in the bottom to bleed out PBW solution when cleaning?

well right now no yeast washing is being done till I can handle this flavor issue. Right now I am following a calculator. making 3 liter starters with usually 2 vials of yeast on a stir plate for 12-24 hours.

I am using the valves because I am mostly automated, Id like to get a better alternative, but the cost is around $200 a valve. The weep hole is so I can let pbw flow out of them, at the same time rinse with RO like normal and let the valve internals dry with the caps off.

 

[aangel]

well right now no yeast washing is being done till I can handle this flavor issue. Right now I am following a calculator. making 3 liter starters with usually 2 vials of yeast on a stir plate for 12-24 hours.

I am using the valves because I am mostly automated, Id like to get a better alternative, but the cost is around $200 a valve. The weep hole is so I can let pbw flow out of them, at the same time rinse with RO like normal and let the valve internals dry with the caps off.

If you want automated+sanitary+cip, actuated diaphragm isolation valves are your only option basically. Ebay has them for about 85 each for pneumatically actuated ones.

 

[wardens355]

well right now no yeast washing is being done till I can handle this flavor issue. Right now I am following a calculator. making 3 liter starters with usually 2 vials of yeast on a stir plate for 12-24 hours.

I am using the valves because I am mostly automated, Id like to get a better alternative, but the cost is around $200 a valve. The weep hole is so I can let pbw flow out of them, at the same time rinse with RO like normal and let the valve internals dry with the caps off.

Good luck with your troubleshooting. Have you considered growing slightly larger starters to store an extra 100-150 billion cells in a sterilized mason jar in the fridge? I think the control over sanitation is easier with starters than fermenter cake, especially if you are worried about sanitation from kettle to carboy. You then save the $$ for yeast every batch.

 

[mattd2]

Have you thought of porting each side of the valve and then pumping cleaner through with the valve open which should flush out the space between the body and ball?
Also if you are really stuck for the source of the infection have considered going back to basics - extract with a good dry yeast and then build back up from there?

 

[kickflip_mj]

The hole in the bottom of the valve worked fantastically today! I ran pbw through it first then cleaned with fresh water.

 

[kickflip_mj]

Still want to get diaphram valves for true CIP