Cider Temp Experiments

[LandoAllen]

Has anyone ever tried to do a temp experiment for different yeasts to see what the flavor profile is like for fermenting at different temps?

I was looking into making a fermentation chamber and using a temperature control on it. I got to thinking about doing an experiment where I would keep the juice the same (pH, SG, brand, ect..) but the variable would be the temperature at which the yeast brewed at. I was thinking about using several different yeasts:

Nottingham
US-05
S-04
Wyeast 1275
Wyeast 3068

I thought about brewing gallon batches of each at 50, 60, 70, and 80 degrees F (and yes I realize that some of the temps are out of the "recommended fermenting temp." This is the whole point of the experiment.)

Has anyone ever tried something like this before? Or anything close? Suggestions?

 

[Pickled_Pepper]

Have you seen anything about these temp ranges in the CvilleKevin Sticky Thread? I haven't read through it in a while, but other than cold crashing I don't recall if it was in there or not.

It would be nice to have it all contained in a separate thread if you do continue with the experiment. I would even go a step further and see if you could push it to 90ºF. Just to get a REALLY BIG swing in flavor from High Temps.

 

[LandoAllen]

I'm currently reading through it again to make sure it's not in there and I'm about half way through the sticky for the second time and I have yet to find anything...

And I like your idea about the 90 degrees too.

 

[Pickled_Pepper]

Go big or go home, right? haha

 

[CvilleKevin]

This sounds like an interesting experiment. I'll save you from re-reading the sticky. There is some general info about temps, but I've never fermented the same juice and yeast simultaneously at different temps to see if I could tell any difference. Everything just ferments in the open in the basement. Since the average basement temp drops over the season, and I've made a lot of recipes multiple times at different temps, I can make some generalizations about temps - but nothing that is as exact as what you are proposing.

In general, I havent noticed a lot of difference in taste between fermenting in the range of 58F and 70F for most yeasts, assuming that they are crashed at the same sg. (not saying there isnt one, just too many other variables in my process to tell exactly) What I mostly get at the lower temps is better control. At 60F, most yeasts will take several weeks to ferment out, so you can take a sample and think, 'hmm this is good, but could go a tad drier - maybe sample it again tomorrow and crash it then'. At 70F, its fermenting so fast that if its in the ballpark, there probably wont be time to wait another day. Above 72F, most yeasts are going to start getting stinky - which doesnt usually affect the taste, but makes the basement a bit unpleasant to hang out in. The wheat yeasts are also going to start producing esters. Ale yeasts will produce esters around 75F. As you crank the temps you're going to get different esters. I doubt any of them will be pleasant, but you never know. Below 55 or so, you risk getting stalls on ale and wheat yeasts.

It would be interesting to do comparisons on the whole range of 50F to 90F. I suspect that what would be of more interest to anyone with a temp chamber is whether there is a noticeable difference between say 60 and 65 degrees. Both are low enough to give you a decent amount of control, and I would not expect that there would be a noticeable difference in taste, but there might be one.

If you are going to do a 5x5 gallon experiment with elevated temps, you might want to line up a way to dispose of the cider that you dont want to drink, so you dont have to dump it. If you have any friends that are raising pigs, they tend to be a lot less discriminating about off-flavors in the cider and you might get some pork chops in exchange for any experimental rejects.

 

[LandoAllen]

I also thought about another temp experiment where I fluctuate the temp every day. Something like:

day 1: 70 F
Day 2: 60 F
Day 3: 70 F
Day 4: 60 F
and so on...

or even more drastic

Day 1: 75
Day 2: 55
Day 3: 75
Day 4: 55
and so on...

People always say that keeping a constant temp range is so important but what really happens to the taste when you have temp changes?

 

[Pickled_Pepper]

I would think that the higher end of the swing (75º+) would start to produce off flavors. I also think that the reason you want to keep temps constant without massive swings is that you are putting stress on the yeast and that would also produce off flavors.

 

[LeBreton]

To build on what Pickled Pepper said, quick temp fluctuations cause the yeast cells to mutate when budding. So instead of having a colony of healthy symmetrical cells, the population becomes varied and sickly, consume the sugars and nutrients unpredictably and I would assume lead to negative autolysis flavors much more quickly. This is why atemperation when pitching is so important.

 

[gregbathurst]

There are different approaches to temperature control. In a warm/hot climate you don't have any choice, you can't brew at ambient temps because it is too hot in summer, in a cool climate you can use ambient temps and not worry about control, this gives a traditional long, slow ferment. The advantage of warmer temps is you can finish the ferment and have everything safely kegged/bottled inside a month, that gives a relatively simple, safe process. The slower ferment is inherently more dangerous because there is a longer timeframe for problems to occur. Fluctuations in temperature can lead to activation of spoilage organisms, specially if free so2 levels fall away. On the other hand cooler ferments are said to give a better flavour, especially retention of volatile flavour compounds. Some people also like a little bit of spoilage, the french like a cider with a little bit of an "old horse" flavour, a bit funky.