Cider in primary already at 8% ABV...what can I do?

[ILikeCider]

Hey everyone!

I'm a new cidermaker. My first batch turned out not great, but still drinkable. I am working on my second batch now, and may potentially need to stop the fermentation as it is already at 8% ABV after four days (OG 1.071, now is 1.010).

My question is, should I add sulfite to it to kill the yeast and stop fermentation? Or possibly add in sorbate to prevent the yeast from multiplying then let it continue fermenting?

I was trying to make this a strawberry cider, and the recipe calls for moving it into secondary with a strawberry puree, which will be adding more sugar, so I'm concerned about what I should do moving forward if I want to save this.

Thank you for your help!

 

[z-bob]

How much sugar did you add? How large a batch is this?

Split it (white plastic buckets will work) and add more unsweetened apple juice. Tada, you now have 10 gallons instead of 5

 

[ILikeCider]

Hi!

It's 5 gallons. I added 1 cup of sugar, 1 lb of honey (I was following a recipe).

 

[z-bob]

Hi!

It's 5 gallons. I added 1 cup of sugar, 1 lb of honey (I was following a recipe).

That doesn't sound unreasonable. Are you sure there's a problem?

 

[ILikeCider]

That doesn't sound unreasonable. Are you sure there's a problem?

No, I guess not. I suppose I'm just afraid of the alcohol content getting too high and ruining the taste. Maybe I'm overthinking it.

 

[Drewed]

Depends on what yeast you used. It may crap out around soon. If not just backsweeten it.
I get leery of any cider recipie that calls for sugar. Plain sugar or dextrose (corn sugar) in the primary does nothing but bump up the ABV. It provides no sweetness nor flavor. Other "sugars" can provide flavor ( honey, maple syrup, brown sugar...). Using sugar after the ferment for backsweeting is fine.

 

[dmtaylor]

Chill, rack, maybe add gelatin to knock out the yeast, rack some more, slam with sorbate, and keep cold.

Next time, maybe don't add any sugar, and ferment cool in the 50s if possible.

 

[eadavis80]

Just have 3 glasses instead of 4.

 

[applescrap]

You are on the right path, sure, add sorbate and camden to kill yeast. Rack it to a secondary and add those things there. Then 48 hours later you can add your back sweets and strawberries. I have read a lot of people like to stop ferment on cider before it becomes to dry, in your case to keep abv in check. Both will suit your recipe well imo. I am new to cider so I could be wrong, but I doubt it. Rack it off the yeast right away brother with those two things, best of luck.

 

[Lefou]

Chill, rack, maybe add gelatin to knock out the yeast, rack some more, slam with sorbate, and keep cold.

Next time, maybe don't add any sugar, and ferment cool in the 50s if possible.

Fermenting steadily at cooler temps can reduce fusel alcohol production. Believe me, my first attempts were hot fusel bombs until I realized this.
At 8% ABV and a gravity of 1.010, it still has a perception of sweetness and an alcohol level equivalent to a table wine. The yeast will keep chugging along until alcohol tolerance is reached, or until the must is completely dry.
Great advice from above.

 

[Lefou]

I have one more thing to say.
Making wine or cider SEEMS easy, but the time and effort to get a good end result sometimes takes more work than brewing ale. I love good examples of wine and beer, but my impatience steered me toward brewing ale instead, simply because the yeast does much of the work, rendering a good ale sooner.

 

[ericbw]

The easiest way to make good cider is to ferment dry and backsweeten. Use juice or cider and the it will dilute it as well. 2/3 fermented, 1/3 fresh cider. Your 8% will be about 5%.

 

[Chalkyt]

More a question than a reply. I have been down the same path and the forum replies have turned this year's cider from "ordinary" to "great". I noticed Drewed's comments about getting some extra flavour using honey or brown sugar.

I have used Brewersfriend priming calculator and used white sugar to bottle carbonate after secondary went down close to 1.000, and got great results. However, what would be the flavour effect of using brown sugar or honey for bottle carbonating. And, what is the grams (or ounces) equivalent of sugar if I used honey?

 

[ericbw]

I usually use honey in equal amounts to sugar. It is pretty much entirely fermentable, but since it's liquid, there is some water in it. So it's not exact, but on the other hand, I don't know that all honey is equal anyway.

You get a little honey aroma, but it mostly ferments out. (I think honey might be a waste of money in most brewing. I use it sometimes, but the benefit is negligible and I might start skipping it or replacing with sugar.)

Brown sugar leaves sort of a metallic or mineral flavor. The small amount for bottle carbonating would probably be subtle. I've never used it for that.

 

[ILikeCider]

Update:

Thanks, guys! All good advice. The cider seemed stable at 8% (which is fine, I just didn't want to get it over 10%, which apparently S-04 yeast can do) over several days, so I put it into secondary with the strawberries and will monitor from there. Thanks again!

 

[bembel]

I would exercise restraint on drinking your cider. For it to ferment that fast it must have been at room temp or above so you've likely got a ton of fusel alcohol which coupled with residual sugar will give you a crushing hangover. Follow DMtaylors advice and ferment as cold as you can. 3-4 weeks is the fastest your cider should go to get to 1.010 - 3-4 months is even better

 

[Baabaad00]

Follow DMtaylors advice and ferment as cold as you can. 3-4 weeks is the fastest your cider should go to get to 1.010 - 3-4 months is even better

Wow! It can really take that long!? Even a typical fresh pressed local apple cider with S04 or notty? I'm new as well. Just preparing my self to do a basic cider this upcoming apple season.

 

[ILikeCider]

I would exercise restraint on drinking your cider. For it to ferment that fast it must have been at room temp or above so you've likely got a ton of fusel alcohol which coupled with residual sugar will give you a crushing hangover. Follow DMtaylors advice and ferment as cold as you can. 3-4 weeks is the fastest your cider should go to get to 1.010 - 3-4 months is even better

Yeah, unfortunately I don't have a great place with regulated temperatures in which to brew (also not enough money to buy a fridge for just brewing). I do keep it in a cellar-like area that gets to about 65 degrees Fahrenheit on the hottest of days, and 50 degrees Fahrenheit when it's colder in summer, so that's the best I can do. Do you have tips on anything I could use to slow it down, other than cooling? I did put some yeast energizer in it to start, so maybe I shouldn't do that next time? And maybe try a different yeast?

 

[ThreeDogsNE]

Lose the yeast energizer! Yeast nutrients are great for helping a beer fermentation move right along, but that is generally not the goal with cider. Are you familiar with keeving? Those who make a keeved cider go to a fair bit of effort to deprive the yeast of nutrients in order to get a slow fermentation, and perhaps a fermentation that gets "stuck" and leaves a sweeter cider.

 

[ILikeCider]

Lose the yeast energizer! Yeast nutrients are great for helping a beer fermentation move right along, but that is generally not the goal with cider. Are you familiar with keeving? Those who make a keeved cider go to a fair bit of effort to deprive the yeast of nutrients in order to get a slow fermentation, and perhaps a fermentation that gets "stuck" and leaves a sweeter cider.

Seems like sound advice! I have heard of keeving, but I think that might be something I try a little later.

I have questions now though, about yeast, because I've heard different things from different sources. One thing I've been told is that if you starve yeast (i.e. Don't provide enough nutrient) then some can die and release bad flavorings. I was also told that this is why one should avoid keeping it in secondary or tertiary too long, but others have said leave it for months after fermentation stops, so I'm really confused.

Even in my reading, I don't have a good understanding of how to "care for" the yeast to make it happy.

 

[Baabaad00]

I believe yeast impart off flavor once sitting on the lees for an excessive period of time. This period of time varies from yeast to yeast. Some you can leave longer than others. Make sure to pay attention to what people are referring to what when saying to add nutrient because some homebrews (wine vs beer for example), can vary greatly. In wine adding nutrient is very common. Beer and cider, not so much in comparison.

 

[Maylar]

It's a double edged sword...

On one hand, a slow ferment makes cider with the best flavor and aroma. This is done by not using nutrients (gotta pick the right yeast for that), and racking when the gravity gets to about 50% to reduce the yeast biomass and slow down the ferment. However, this requires that you have temperature control and can ferment at or below the yeast's minimum range. The process can take 5 months to complete.

But if you try that at "normal" temperatures you risk sulfur production if you don't use nutrients. Yeast needs nitrogen to survive, and if they don't get it from the juice they get stressed and make sulfur compounds. Again, this is yeast dependent - some strains need less nitrogen than others.

What works for me is to use some nutrients up front and ferment in the low to mid 60's. Never had sulfur or a stalled ferment. But without active temperature control, it means I make cider in the fall - winter season only.

 

[dmtaylor]

One thing I've been told is that if you starve yeast (i.e. Don't provide enough nutrient) then some can die and release bad flavorings. I was also told that this is why one should avoid keeping it in secondary or tertiary too long, but others have said leave it for months after fermentation stops, so I'm really confused.

This has NOT been my experience at all. I leave my cider in primary for many many months (currently at 9 months from last October) and the cider tastes fine. My extreme laziness in getting around to bottling it has not hurt its flavor at all. I sampled some a couple weeks ago and it's great.

I fermented low and slow, without any added nutrients or anything. It actually took about 7 months to complete the fermentation all the way down to about 0.995. The start of fermentation happened fast, but the last 0.005 points took about 3 months. And I'm good with waiting this long, probably because I still have at least a case or more of cider to drink up from last year. I don't think I'll make any more this fall (otherwise I always make some in October every year at harvest).

Cheers.

 

[MindenMan]

One way to help control fermentation speed is to put your fermenter in a larger "bucket" filled approx half-way with water in the coolest spot in (or under) the house. If you can freeze a few soda bottles full of water you can swap those out during the beginning of fermentation to help control temps. if you can rig a cheap fan to blow on the fermenter that is in the big bucket, placing a tee shirt or the equivalent on the fermenter works as a wick for the water and a very effective swamp cooler. They say,"Necessity is the mother of invention", but sometimes necessity is just a mother of her own.

 

[ThreeDogsNE]

Ah, the "swamp cooler". I have used it in the past with beer fermentations in my basement. Left a few weeks, the bucket water and tee shirt got to be a moldy mess. I would not plan to use one for a long slow fermentation without planning some maintenance to avoid that.

 

[Danieljhb]

Following this great advice..